It's actually wild how much more difficult Isshin the Sword Saint is than everything that came before

[seafood]

I'm slowly but surely getting there (150+ attempts), but this boss is an incredibly high step up in difficulty from Genichiro, Guardian Ape, Owl, etc. Seems a bit OP, but I guess this is the final test.

I'm also avoiding guides on these bosses, so learning each phase takes ages. This is a tough boss. Easily the toughest boss I've ever fought in a video game.

It's going to feel good to finally win.

[dziablo]

I remember when I first fought him he seemed not doable for me :) Good luck

[seafood]

Originally posted by dziablo:

I remember when I first fought him he seemed not doable for me :) Good luck

Thank you!!

[Crypto Gamer]

You can kill the demon of hatred the optional endgame boss for some attack damage boost so you are at 13 if you killed everyone expect final boss.

Umbrella with living force can block and counter attack some of Isshin's combat arts.

Combat arts will do chip damage unless you perfect deflect.


Likely the second phase is the hardest so best save emblems for that.

Some of Sekrios combat arts can cancel some of the Sword Saint's combat arts too.
So you can experment on how to counter.

Phase 3 you hopefully got gud at lighting reversal so you can even run around and throw it back a few times for hp damage.

I personally found the second Hirata Memory Owl to be much harder than final boss.


There is also an inner Father and Isshin which gets unlocked and you can fight them for rewards.
They are basically super versions of the basic ones.

[CazadorDeLobo]

There is a good reason for the difficulty spike, as far as engineering the player's skills to then counter them fully with mix-ups and hard-to-read maneuvers.

Genichiro serves as the punching bag the player can trivialize with raw aggression, but on deflection vs Isshin, you're nearly always forced to do something other than stand there and attack; he'll do an uppercut into sweep, a palm strike into trust, a backdash into draw-slash-wave attack, or a side dash(technically the best outcome). Genichiro on the other hand falls apart if you just keep on him and answer his mortal draw with your own.

When Isshin phase 2 hits, you're gasping for air: A completely different moveset with your visibility on his movements slightly obscured by the grass and his flowy outfit. Depending on your ability to get out of danger and "reset" yourself, this is likely where your runs end most often.

You're forced frequently to change strategies, per-phase and mid-phase. Just standing there will cause him to do his own "back up and reset" into a large number of possible attacks meant to trip you up. Taking initiative is the best option, although he'll often deflect anything you throw at him and hyper-armor through your basic attacks into a combo sequence that will usually kill if not avoided or perfectly deflected(large posture damage).

Any one strength you've been relying on will be inadequate; Reading everything perfectly is easier said than done, blocking and poorly timing deflections will leave you very vulnerable, attacking too wildly will have you bleeding out, prosthetic attacks are extremely tricky to land and utilize to good effect, combat arts are a great idea if you're using them optimally(to chip or get more vitality damage in during small openings) but may doom you if you've not practiced them thoroughly, and finally, he doesn't give you a break to catch up and so you must learn him at his pace(at first).

tl;dr it's a masterfully designed boss.

[CazadorDeLobo]

Originally posted by Crypto Gamer:

There is also an inner Father and Isshin which gets unlocked and you can fight them for rewards. They are basically super versions of the basic ones.

Yeah, the Inner versions gain a few moves + other moves are upgraded to something more difficult to deal with. The most difficult, in my opinion, is Inner Father. That fight, technically secret, is my true favorite fight. The spike vs Isshin is one thing, but Inner Father has a lot in common with Malenia. It's the most difficult fight in the game.

Fighting and defeating Isshin is glorious; Fighting and defeating Inner Father is brutal.

[wyvern 1233]

high monk helped me in 1st and halve 2nd then i use the good old trick of running till a attack with a long recovery so i can hit him

[seafood]

Thanks everyone for the tips and encouragement!

[seafood]

Originally posted by Crypto Gamer:

You can kill the demon of hatred the optional endgame boss for some attack damage boost so you are at 13 if you killed everyone expect final boss.

Umbrella with living force can block and counter attack some of Isshin's combat arts.

Combat arts will do chip damage unless you perfect deflect.


Likely the second phase is the hardest so best save emblems for that.

Some of Sekrios combat arts can cancel some of the Sword Saint's combat arts too.
So you can experment on how to counter.

Phase 3 you hopefully got gud at lighting reversal so you can even run around and throw it back a few times for hp damage.

I personally found the second Hirata Memory Owl to be much harder than final boss.


There is also an inner Father and Isshin which gets unlocked and you can fight them for rewards.
They are basically super versions of the basic ones.

This is all really helpful - thank you! Indeed, I can get through Genichiro and Isshin Phase 1 without getting hit - it's Phase 2 where I'm still looking to find my rhythm. Mikuri counter appears to be a solid strategy; I got really close to beating this phase last night. Getting there! I am also feeling pretty confident with my lightning reversal ability, so I think phase 2 sounds to be the hardest.

[seafood]

Originally posted by CazadorDeLobo:

There is a good reason for the difficulty spike, as far as engineering the player's skills to then counter them fully with mix-ups and hard-to-read maneuvers.

Genichiro serves as the punching bag the player can trivialize with raw aggression, but on deflection vs Isshin, you're nearly always forced to do something other than stand there and attack; he'll do an uppercut into sweep, a palm strike into trust, a backdash into draw-slash-wave attack, or a side dash(technically the best outcome). Genichiro on the other hand falls apart if you just keep on him and answer his mortal draw with your own.

When Isshin phase 2 hits, you're gasping for air: A completely different moveset with your visibility on his movements slightly obscured by the grass and his flowy outfit. Depending on your ability to get out of danger and "reset" yourself, this is likely where your runs end most often.

You're forced frequently to change strategies, per-phase and mid-phase. Just standing there will cause him to do his own "back up and reset" into a large number of possible attacks meant to trip you up. Taking initiative is the best option, although he'll often deflect anything you throw at him and hyper-armor through your basic attacks into a combo sequence that will usually kill if not avoided or perfectly deflected(large posture damage).

Any one strength you've been relying on will be inadequate; Reading everything perfectly is easier said than done, blocking and poorly timing deflections will leave you very vulnerable, attacking too wildly will have you bleeding out, prosthetic attacks are extremely tricky to land and utilize to good effect, combat arts are a great idea if you're using them optimally(to chip or get more vitality damage in during small openings) but may doom you if you've not practiced them thoroughly, and finally, he doesn't give you a break to catch up and so you must learn him at his pace(at first).

tl;dr it's a masterfully designed boss.

Indeed, phase 2 is where I'm getting stuck! I can get through Genichiro and Isshin Phase 1 without getting hit, and make pretty good progress wearing down his posture, but I always seem to make one mistake that more or less ends the fight.

I really appreciate you taking the time to write these tips! Thank you!

[seafood]

Originally posted by CazadorDeLobo:

Originally posted by Crypto Gamer:

There is also an inner Father and Isshin which gets unlocked and you can fight them for rewards. They are basically super versions of the basic ones.

Yeah, the Inner versions gain a few moves + other moves are upgraded to something more difficult to deal with. The most difficult, in my opinion, is Inner Father. That fight, technically secret, is my true favorite fight. The spike vs Isshin is one thing, but Inner Father has a lot in common with Malenia. It's the most difficult fight in the game.

Fighting and defeating Isshin is glorious; Fighting and defeating Inner Father is brutal.

Interesting - more to look forward to! Surprisingly, I didn't have a ton of trouble with Malenia, But maybe I got lucky, haha

[opus132]

Isshin is one of the greatest boss FromSoft has ever made because he is completely free of ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

All of his movies can be learned, including that seven hit combo he does in the second phase.

Keep in mind you can trivialize his third phase with lighting reversal so really all you have to do is master the second phase and you are golden.

[twintailz]

yeah, i brute forced him on my first couple playthroughs (basically fight him until i got lucky). took me a while to have the patience to just sit for an hour and memorize his combos/timings along with how far i could push my aggression against him.

[seafood]

Originally posted by opus132:

Isshin is one of the greatest boss FromSoft has ever made because he is completely free of ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

All of his movies can be learned, including that seven hit combo he does in the second phase.

Keep in mind you can trivialize his third phase with lighting reversal so really all you have to do is master the second phase and you are golden.

Good point!

I just got to the final phase for the first time (after many, many attempts). My brain decided to do a mikuri counter instead of lightning reversal, so Isshin got me. I'm getting close!

[seafood]

Originally posted by twintailz:

yeah, i brute forced him on my first couple playthroughs (basically fight him until i got lucky). took me a while to have the patience to just sit for an hour and memorize his combos/timings along with how far i could push my aggression against him.

I'm getting close! I think I have most of his moves down. Getting there!

[CazadorDeLobo]

Originally posted by seafood:

Originally posted by twintailz:

yeah, i brute forced him on my first couple playthroughs (basically fight him until i got lucky). took me a while to have the patience to just sit for an hour and memorize his combos/timings along with how far i could push my aggression against him.

I'm getting close! I think I have most of his moves down. Getting there!

A tip that might turn the tide in your favor is to dash forward and to the side after his jumping slam. This automatically comes out when you've dashed away and started healing, and while easy to deflect, it can also be evaded and capitalized on for easy hits.

Cycling between your tools may also trigger this behavior, if you don't need to heal but want the close-in attack to come out. He usually always follows up with a slow but strong "blunderbuss" shot, which I prefer to disable him from doing if I'm close enough.

Between this and his big stab, you can use spacing to your advantage, and for the most part avoid the sword+spear combos if those are proving difficult. Remember that you can pause and take a few breaths help shift between phase 1 and 2, as it's technically when he gains abject statistical advantages in the interactions you were winning previously(hyper-armor, reach, etc.), but his heal punish is worse in phase 2 and 3 since it's telegraphed and slower on both startup and recovery.

When in doubt of your spacing, press deflect anyways. On the wide-arc "wind" attack he does in all phases, watch his physical stance unwind, and press deflect as you see it since the attack itself is near-instantaneous.