Father's Bell Charm Missable

[racism expert]

38/40 Prayer Beads. Does it annoy anyone else that developers continue to include missable items/etc in games? This has always, ALWAYS been a huge pet peeve of mine and always deters me from wanting to play a game in the first place, not that Sekiro isn't awesome and deserves at least a second playthrough. There is no excuse for having just two missable Prayer Beads in a missable area when it is so easy to relocate mini-bosses. I'm still going to go back and do split saves on PC to get the other endings as well as suffering the torment of doing a no death run but that's besides the point.

Why not make it so all items missed within a playthrough become attainable in some pain-in-the-a$$ way at end game, to allow players to get anything they missed but in a way that requires extra work or even a large in-game expense (ie buy the missing Prayer Beads from the offering box in the Dilapidated Temple)?

"Just play new game plus, bro, and play all the way to the end for those two PBs lel"

Absolutely disgusting.

[ahaha.wav]

Kind of a moot point, because the sort of people (completionists) who will care about those missing prayer beads are also the sort of people who will want to go back and do the other endings. You yourself have said you intend to do this, only to declare that it is for some reason "besides the point" that your own logic doesn't effect you. Is this thread just you getting mad on behalf of some imaginary third party who cares enough to want the last two arbitrary upgrade materials but not enough to play the game a second time?

[racism expert]

It's a general complaint that seems to affect the vast majority of games with any sort of a plot. It makes no sense to create missables in video games when it takes just a fraction of the effort to create failsafe measures as I described. RPGs are far more guilty of this gaming sin but I wanted to bash Sekiro for failing to break the mold. I see this sh*t in the same vein as glitches and bad design so an otherwise 9+/10 game takes a hit in my book. Maybe you don't care but I know others do. People need to be more vocal about this stuff because it's so retardedly easy to fix.

[YamaTsunami]

Originally posted by OfficerDarrenWilson:

38/40 Prayer Beads. Does it annoy anyone else that developers continue to include missable items/etc in games? This has always, ALWAYS been a huge pet peeve of mine and always deters me from wanting to play a game in the first place, not that Sekiro isn't awesome and deserves at least a second playthrough. There is no excuse for having just two missable Prayer Beads in a missable area when it is so easy to relocate mini-bosses. I'm still going to go back and do split saves on PC to get the other endings as well as suffering the torment of doing a no death run but that's besides the point.

Why not make it so all items missed within a playthrough become attainable in some pain-in-the-a$$ way at end game, to allow players to get anything they missed but in a way that requires extra work or even a large in-game expense (ie buy the missing Prayer Beads from the offering box in the Dilapidated Temple)?

"Just play new game plus, bro, and play all the way to the end for those two PBs lel"

Absolutely disgusting.

Fromsoft has been doing missable items and bosses since DS1, not sure why they'd change it now.
I think adding stuff like that makes it worth replaying. If i could fight every boss and get every item in 1 playthrough then there would be no reason to go NG+. You might say a game doesn't need replay value but i'm sure a lot of people, especially souls fans, would disagree.

[ahaha.wav]

I am still really not understanding why missing a single health upgrade bothers you to the point of deciding a game is worse because of it, but okay. If somebody isn't doing NG+ why would it matter anyway, is having a little more HP and posture for the final boss that big a deal?

[racism expert]

Replayability is a lame reason for making things missable. Having alternate endings with specific abilities or items or weapons related to each one is a plus for any game, as long as the rewards/losses are balanced. That's not what this is about. It's leaving out just two bosses on an otherwise complete playthrough solely because the devs felt like doing things that way, that's what I can't stand. They could have just as easily made it so you can collect all 40 PBs in one run no matter what. Why is that so hard to agree with? The game has a ton of replayability on its own design merits. The bosses are difficult and there are tons of them. There's no arguing that. And just because From has been doing this all along doesn't mean it's defendable. Pretty much everything else in the game, as far as I can tell, can be done in one go so why not take a little extra time in development to tie out loose ends?

A good example of this is having a merchant at the end of FF3 that will sell you any and all summon magic even if you missed the sidequest earlier in the game but she sells each at an exorbitant price. That's all I want.

[ahaha.wav]

Yeah, the more you rant about this the more I'm convinced this is just you, sorry. The second visit to Hirata Estate is supposed to be hidden, and it's far from the first time From have done something like this. There's no point in rewarding exploration if you can get the reward regardless of whether you bothered to explore.

[Chrysalis]

Without NG+ existing I would agree with you, but missable things in such a replayable game are definitely not a problem for most people(including me). It motivates you to have a second playthrough where you can still discover new things and collect stuff you missed. Of course it would be nice to have the option to buy this stuff at the end, but such miniscule things don't really matter.

[orangebish]

I agree. Also, it's disgusting how some battle memories are missable. You want good ending? Sorry, kiddo, no Shura ending memories for you. Demon of Hatred is too hard? Sorry, kiddo, git gud. They just should let us buy every memory and every prayer bead, instead of wasting out time.

[xBGLx狂犬]

I just wonder why steam allows people to say that the game is disgusting but if someone call such player smth like "noob idiot" he will be immediately ban from thread , but this guy will continue to blame the game for some weird stuff .

[Chrysalis]

Originally posted by xBULLETx:

I just wonder why steam allows people to say that the game is disgusting but if someone call such player smth like "noob idiot" he will be immediately ban from thread , but this guy will continue to blame the game for some weird stuff .

I would guess that's because one thing is an insult and the other thing is just a (stupid) opinion.

[ahaha.wav]

Originally posted by xBULLETx:

I just wonder why steam allows people to say that the game is disgusting but if someone call such player smth like "noob idiot" he will be immediately ban from thread , but this guy will continue to blame the game for some weird stuff .

I don't think those points are even vaguely related, but okay.

[Yian Yan]

If it were mandatory to have 40 prayer beads to do any of the content I would agree with you but HP upgrades are very optional in this game. Attack upgrades are a bigger thing but there are plenty mandatory boss memories that make the remaining very optional anyway. The game itself even has places where you can purchase missing items locked off from progression to make you able to reach reasonable HP values. These memories/beads from this specific hidden area are simply considered not to be necessary, I suppose.

If it's for an achievement, then there's no real reason to be complaining about this. Achievements are completely pointless optional garbage that serve no purpose other than to offer the desire to achieve them to give more play time. So get out there, play, and get your achievement. Or don't.


Why do these two prayer beads NEED to be available in a (blind) first playthrough, exactly?

[Chrysalis]

Originally posted by Yian Yan:

If it were mandatory to have 40 prayer beads to do any of the content I would agree with you but HP upgrades are very optional in this game. Attack upgrades are a bigger thing but there are plenty mandatory boss memories that make the remaining very optional anyway. The game itself even has places where you can purchase missing items locked off from progression to make you able to reach reasonable HP values. These memories/beads from this specific hidden area are simply considered not to be necessary, I suppose.

If it's for an achievement, then there's no real reason to be complaining about this. Achievements are completely pointless optional garbage that serve no purpose other than to offer the desire to achieve them to give more play time. So get out there, play, and get your achievement. Or don't.


Why do these two prayer beads NEED to be available in a (blind) first playthrough, exactly?

Finally someone reasonable, I completely agree with everything you said. Prayer beads and memories are optional for a reason, because they are not mandatory for the game. This endless whining about that this game is too hard or unfair and that there are missable things and areas is just annoying.

[SmallGespenst]

Originally posted by OfficerDarrenWilson:

Replayability is a lame reason for making things missable. Having alternate endings with specific abilities or items or weapons related to each one is a plus for any game, as long as the rewards/losses are balanced. That's not what this is about. It's leaving out just two bosses on an otherwise complete playthrough solely because the devs felt like doing things that way, that's what I can't stand. They could have just as easily made it so you can collect all 40 PBs in one run no matter what. Why is that so hard to agree with? The game has a ton of replayability on its own design merits. The bosses are difficult and there are tons of them. There's no arguing that. And just because From has been doing this all along doesn't mean it's defendable. Pretty much everything else in the game, as far as I can tell, can be done in one go so why not take a little extra time in development to tie out loose ends?

A good example of this is having a merchant at the end of FF3 that will sell you any and all summon magic even if you missed the sidequest earlier in the game but she sells each at an exorbitant price. That's all I want.

the alternate endings arguement would make sense IF the endings were alll equivalent, but they aren't. shura if the "what if Luke sided with Vader" bad end that cuts the story shortand misses out on a hell of a lot more than two prayer beads. immortal severance is the basic "you did what the game directly told you to do and nothing more" ending with the other two being rewards for doing more than the bare minimum.
the Hirata estate re-visit isn't dependant on the purification ending, you can even beat owl 2 and do immortal seveance anyway. but it;s a secret area you didn't bother to unlock. there are also a handful of preayer beads that can be missed in the rest of the game, pretty much every state-change of the ashina castle has new minibosses, with the old ones vanishing, but it;s only the minibosses in the secret area that are a problem right?
also about that missable items shop? it's a thing in the game. it's called the offerings box. (it might actually sell the prayer beads from the midbosses that vanish) FROM just didn't want to have the prayer beads just magically show up there when most player would have no idea they'd missed anything.
TLDR: it would be silly to have content from the secret area show up in the offering boss when it's a secret area that most player would miss. FROM simply didn't want the missable secret area to be something everyone would do on their first playthrough.

[racism expert]

I wasn't saying that the multiple endings were equivalent, just that the concept is great if executed properly. Not "bothering" to unlock the hidden area no one would know about without extreme testing or online guides is kind of a ridiculous thing to pin on the player. The offerings box clearly was meant to give you some of the things you might miss forever, but not all. I don't know if that's better or worse than ignoring missability entirely because it shows a desire without proper execution on the dev team's part. When you get to the very end of the game, have 38/40 PBs, and eventually come to find there is absolutely no way to get the missing two without another full playthrough on that file is a kick in the groin.

Yes, this is partly for completion of achievements which I agree are stupid. It's more so for me personally to have a "complete" file and it just irritates me that such a thing requires careful planning instead of extra endgame effort and struggle. Why is that so hard to understand?