Is Genechiro really a good guy?

[Atlas32]

I'm not that clear on the story, so correct me. But didn't the Ashina clan take their lands back from the Tamura clan who conquered them, only to be invaded by the interior ministry, which are basically the emperor / empire's soldiers? so they are basically a lone clan fighting for their independence, and they kidnap the divine heir to use the power of his blood so that they have the strength to destroy the interior ministry? and Sekiro is the protagonist that we control that is tasked by his father to protect the divine heir?

So why does Owl care to protect the divine heir, and did Sekiro realy have to kill all of those Ashina soldiers / generals? was there another way to rescue the divine heir from Genechiro? I get the feeling that Genechiro is only trying to save his clan from destruction. Did he have to kill the boy or could he just cut his hand or something and take a bit of the blood for his generals and himself?

[ice]

Escrito originalmente por pcdeltalink:

Escrito originalmente por iceink:

there is absolutely no sense behind this interpretation because of the very simple fact that sekiro turned on owl anyways, owl literally created his own undoing and would be better off just leaving sekiro for dead as a child

He literally explained it perfectly.

Sekiro turning on Owl is your choice as a player at the branching point in the story. The other path has you joining Owl and his plan going as he wanted.

Owl set things up to where Sekiro would be granted immortality and was planning to use Sekiro’s adherence to the code of obeying his parent (Owl) to influence Sekiro to choose him over Kuro.

no? Owl still ends up losing if you take that action

you're just twisting your neck in knots trying to explain away the unexplained here, it's honestly amusing to watch

the only person doing the sensible thing in the game is Ishinn, who just sits there drinking sake and musing on what his crazy grandson thinks he's doing, he has no intention of trying to stop the inevitable march of history (inner ministry taking over) and knows his time has passed, and as long there's nobody turning into a SHURA left around him to make things worse he doesn't care

literally everyone else except sekiro, emma, and sculptor is wrapped up in some meaningless lost cause and is presently losing their mind

[pcdeltalink]

Escrito originalmente por iceink:

Escrito originalmente por pcdeltalink:

He literally explained it perfectly.

Sekiro turning on Owl is your choice as a player at the branching point in the story. The other path has you joining Owl and his plan going as he wanted.

Owl set things up to where Sekiro would be granted immortality and was planning to use Sekiro’s adherence to the code of obeying his parent (Owl) to influence Sekiro to choose him over Kuro.

no? Owl still ends up losing if you take that action

you're just twisting your neck in knots trying to explain away the unexplained here, it's honestly amusing to watch

the only person doing the sensible thing in the game is Ishinn, who just sits there drinking sake and musing on what his crazy grandson thinks he's doing, he has no intention of trying to stop the inevitable march of history (inner ministry taking over) and knows his time has passed, and as long there's nobody turning into a SHURA left around him to make things worse he doesn't care

literally everyone else except sekiro, emma, and sculptor is wrapped up in some meaningless lost cause and is presently losing their mind

You act like Owl knew Sekiro was going to kill him in the Shura ending when he clearly didn’t anticipate that at all. He figured it was over and they would rule side by side. Sekiro betraying him doesn’t change what Owl’s original intention was.

[ice]

Escrito originalmente por pcdeltalink:

Escrito originalmente por iceink:

no? Owl still ends up losing if you take that action

you're just twisting your neck in knots trying to explain away the unexplained here, it's honestly amusing to watch

the only person doing the sensible thing in the game is Ishinn, who just sits there drinking sake and musing on what his crazy grandson thinks he's doing, he has no intention of trying to stop the inevitable march of history (inner ministry taking over) and knows his time has passed, and as long there's nobody turning into a SHURA left around him to make things worse he doesn't care

literally everyone else except sekiro, emma, and sculptor is wrapped up in some meaningless lost cause and is presently losing their mind

You act like Owl knew Sekiro was going to kill him in the Shura ending when he clearly didn’t anticipate that at all. He figured it was over and they would rule side by side. Sekiro betraying him doesn’t change what Owl’s original intention was.

if owl didn't anticipate a possible problem with screwing around with an immortal shinobi master he INTENTIONALLY saved, trained, then ultimately tried to manipulate and betray he was a complete fool

again, point still stands: he would be better off never helping sekiro to begin with, or just doing what sekiro and kuro wanted instead of defying them

[Sonnenbank]

pointless to argue with iceink...

He is that kind of person that cant admit he said something wrong.
He would rather make up all kinds bs... instead of a simple "Oh i didnt get it at the time i played sekiro"

Some people cant admit when they were wrong
he is one of them.....

Owls plan was to conquer the world
for that he needed Kuros gift of immortality
He knew there was no way Kuro would ever give it to him
So he needed Sekiro to create a strong bond between Kuro and Sekiro
They grew up together and are like brothers.
He hoped if Kuro had to decide to save the only person that is family to him he would do it.
and he was right.

He also hoped he could manipulate Sekiro enough by raising him and teaching him that Sekiro would always choose him over anything else.
What he didnt expect was that Sekiro (In the Shura Ending after all thet killing and ressurecting became possessed with becomming a Godlike creature of endless Power himself and didnt want to share his rule with anyone not even his father... Sekiro turned into demon and had no other interest in the end than his own power and his own power alone)

@ iceink
So how would owl achieve his plan if he never helped Sekiro ?`
How would he achieve his plan if he helped Kuro getting rid of immortality `?

You iceink make 0.00 sense because you just cant admit you didnt understand what was happening in the first place.


Is it the best Story ever ?
ofc not.
But it has some logic behind it and your comments dont have any logic @ all and are just plain wrong

[ice]

you're actually ridiculous if you think what owl is doing is sensible, he's literally setting himself for spectacular failure

he's much better off leaving sekiro alone or helping kuro

owl is literally an old fogie and his aspirations to rule the world are nebulous and he won't live long enough for it to matter, especially when sekiro even with immortality is not enough to stop the ministry single handedly

he is as foolish and confused as genichiro and anyone who isn't able to see that had the and level of foresight they display

[Atlas32]

Hey guys. Just to clarify, are the interior ministry like the Japanese government forces that want to destroy the Ashina to control Japan? and also, didn't the Ashina wage war against the Tamura clan in order to stop their oppression?

Also, if you have seen the coral blade that the dragon wields, isn't that the coral blade that they said the gods dipped into the ocean and when they pulled it out the droplets formed the islands of Japan? was that from the Shinto religion in real life?

[ice]

Escrito originalmente por Omega1:

Hey guys. Just to clarify, are the interior ministry like the Japanese government forces that want to destroy the Ashina to control Japan? and also, didn't the Ashina wage war against the Tamura clan in order to stop their oppression?

Also, if you have seen the coral blade that the dragon wields, isn't that the coral blade that they said the gods dipped into the ocean and when they pulled it out the droplets formed the islands of Japan? was that from the Shinto religion in real life?

interior ministry are based on the unification of Japan's separate warring clans under the Tokugawa shogunate

the sword the dragon has is the Seven Branched sword, it's very old artifact iron sword possibly made in China it was given by a Korean monarch to old ruler of Japan a long time before Sekiro's period, but not a lot else is known about it, Korea, China, and Japan had many various wars and relations but that is quite awhile before Sekiro's time period

[TK]

Escrito originalmente por Sonnenbank lowermmr:

pointless to argue with iceink...

He is that kind of person that cant admit he said something wrong.
He would rather make up all kinds bs... instead of a simple "Oh i didnt get it at the time i played sekiro"

Some people cant admit when they were wrong
he is one of them.....

Is it the best Story ever ?
ofc not.
But it has some logic behind it and your comments dont have any logic @ all and are just plain wrong

Why do you guys even bother with iceink lol
I mean just look at that profile pic lmao

[Small Brain Syndrome]

Escrito originalmente por JamestheFreak:

So is it just a gameplay thing only or is it canon every enemy except for bosses always revives when Wolf dies or uses the idol to rest?

I don't know if we ever got a canonical explanation (if someone does have some evidence of that, please quote me and link it), but I remember seeing someone suggest the idea that Sekiro is, in his mind, resetting the events as he doesn't think he's good enough and thus wants to try over and over again. That made quite a bit of sense to me, given the whole regret over cocking up defending Kuro and such. Hopefully that helps!

[Small Brain Syndrome]

Also to answer OP's question, the game (at least from what I saw) doesn't try to make Sekiro necessarily good for his actions. For example, upon killing Gyobu, I think Sekiro apologises to him, likely understanding that he's effectively just blown a hole through Ashina's defenses. Furthermore, a lot of the generals/soldiers in Sekiro's path are a direct blockade to his objective, with some exceptions. The Iron soldier guy in Senpou is another example of an immovable object. Although, you should bare in mind that he's a shinobi, so he does what his code and honour tells him, not whether or not it's moral. If he had to kill people that are far weaker than him, I doubt he'd bat an eye if it got in the way of his objective. Then again, he does show some signs of compassion, so he's not heartless.

Additionally, a lot of the bosses you face choose to fight you due to either an honour-bound code, simple distrust of a shinobi or merely for the sake of fighting. Either that, or they're being internally vored by a centipede and thus have little choice in the matter.

Owl chooses to "protect" the Divine Heir because he realises his importance. I say "protect", because in reality he was simply putting in a reservation for his own ulterior motives. With the Divine Blood, you cannot die, and with someone as skilled as Sekiro? He could move mountains (figuratively), and thus Owl was hoping to use Sekiro - and by extension - Kuro as essentially chess pieces for power and conquering.

Does Genichiro need to hurt Kuro? As far as I'm aware, I believe so, but I may be wrong, and it does get more complicated when you consider Genichiro's mental health - which I'll go into. Kill him? Probably not, but again I may be wrong.

Is Genichiro in the right? Well, that entirely depends on what you define as ethical and right. Bare in mind that Genichiro has no problems using and abusing Kuro's curse simply to protect Ashina. Whilst that's noble at first, it's somewhat evident that he's not exactly stable, and each progressive fight with him shows more desperation and worrying traits. Namely, the fact that he's more than okay with spreading essentially the plague across Ashina purely to protect it, and what good is protecting a castle if everyone's dead? Furthermore, as you noted, he was okay with wounding and potentially even killing a child purely because he wasn't getting what he wants.

Also consider the impossible fight Genichiro is proposing, whereby he wants a small portion of Japan to hold off the Interior Ministry with the remaining defences they have - half of which are old and dying.

Finally, Isshin made it clear that he helped bring Ashina together because he felt that they had become stronger, that they hadn't become, as he put it, "weak". If they need essentially moderator powers to stand a chance, Isshin's more than okay to let it burn to the ground.

So, whilst Genichiro has noble intentions, he's been a bit blinded by nationalist? (probably wrong word) ideals and isn't letting reality hit him, and instead is appealing to a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ revive technique to compensate for his back-alley one, in an almost wasted attempt to save Ashina from being bukkake'd by the Interior Ministry.

Hopefully that helped, and that it didn't offend you at all. If anyone notices anything wrong, please do quote that section out and correct it for future readers, hopefully with a source to back that claim up.

[Atlas32]

Escrito originalmente por Morgz's Mum:

bukkake'd by the Interior Ministry.

Did you have to put it that way 😂

[Small Brain Syndrome]

Escrito originalmente por Enpro112:

Escrito originalmente por Morgz's Mum:

bukkake'd by the Interior Ministry.

Did you have to put it that way 😂

I couldn't resist 😂