Funny how Emma and old Isshin are exceptional fighters...

[Stardama69]

But only when they're fighting against you. As long as you show the finger to Shura they'll never help you defeat yours - and Kuro's - enemies, ever, even when it would make the most sense for them to do so (against Owl, notably). It just stroke me as odd, lore-wise.

[(Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr]

Isshin is the Tengu, who clearly kills Lone Shadows.

Emma says that she only trained so she could kill a demon should one appear.

[Stardama69]

Originally posted by (Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr:

Isshin is the Tengu, who clearly kills Lone Shadows.

Emma says that she only trained so she could kill a demon should one appear.

Owl could be considered a demon. Appears out of the blue, can't be reasoned and is clearly a threat to Kuro. Like Genichiro in the finale, actually.

[(Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr]

Originally posted by ;1864993937059282553:

Originally posted by (Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr:

Isshin is the Tengu, who clearly kills Lone Shadows.

Emma says that she only trained so she could kill a demon should one appear.

Owl could be considered a demon. Appears out of the blue, can't be reasoned and is clearly a threat to Kuro. Like Genichiro in the finale, actually.

A demon, or someone becoming Shura, means that they are only killing for the fun of it. Owl is scheming for the purpose of ruling Japan. He is not mindlessly out for blood like Wolf and the Sculptor become after their transformations.

Emma trained so that she could kill the Sculptor if he every succumbed to Shura again. However, you kill him instead when this happens because the Sculptor didn’t want Emma to have to do it.

Emma fights Sekiro in the Shura Ending simply because he is falling to Shura like the Sculptor did before.

[Stardama69]

Originally posted by (Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr:

Originally posted by ;1864993937059282553:

Owl could be considered a demon. Appears out of the blue, can't be reasoned and is clearly a threat to Kuro. Like Genichiro in the finale, actually.

A demon, or someone becoming Shura, means that they are only killing for the fun of it. Owl is scheming for the purpose of ruling Japan. He is not mindlessly out for blood like Wolf and the Sculptor become after their transformations.

Emma trained so that she could kill the Sculptor if he every succumbed to Shura again. However, you kill him instead when this happens because the Sculptor didn’t want Emma to have to do it.

Emma fights Sekiro in the Shura Ending simply because he is falling to Shura like the Sculptor did before.

So you're saying Owl or Geni could have stabbed Kuro in front of her to steal his power and she wouldn't have flinched ?

Btw where did you get the info that Owl wanted to rule Japan ? I'm still genuinely confused as to his motives. Such huge ambition doesn't fit a shinobi, who is essentially a weapon destined to serve a master. initially I thought he simply wanted personal power, to become stronger, then I understood he was working with the Ministry and was behind both the attack on the castle and the past assault on Hirata Estate, but still, I dunno why he did that.

[(Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr]

Originally posted by Stardama69:

Originally posted by (Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr:

A demon, or someone becoming Shura, means that they are only killing for the fun of it. Owl is scheming for the purpose of ruling Japan. He is not mindlessly out for blood like Wolf and the Sculptor become after their transformations.

Emma trained so that she could kill the Sculptor if he every succumbed to Shura again. However, you kill him instead when this happens because the Sculptor didn’t want Emma to have to do it.

Emma fights Sekiro in the Shura Ending simply because he is falling to Shura like the Sculptor did before.

So you're saying Owl or Geni could have stabbed Kuro in front of her to steal his power and she wouldn't have flinched ?

Btw where did you get the info that Owl wanted to rule Japan ? I'm still genuinely confused as to his motives. Such huge ambition doesn't fit a shinobi, who is essentially a weapon destined to serve a master. initially I thought he simply wanted personal power, to become stronger, then I understood he was working with the Ministry and was behind both the attack on the castle and the past assault on Hirata Estate, but still, I dunno why he did that.

He says it during the Shura Ending.

Owl also needs Kuro alive for his goal.

[Stardama69]

Originally posted by (Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr:

He says it during the Shura Ending.

Owl also needs Kuro alive for his goal.

Interesting. But Genichiro tries to murder Kuro at the end, right ?

[(Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr]

Originally posted by Stardama69:

Originally posted by (Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr:

He says it during the Shura Ending.

Owl also needs Kuro alive for his goal.

Interesting. But Genichiro tries to murder Kuro at the end, right ?

Kuro bleeding acts as a means to show Genichiro has the other Mortal Blade.

He also might be so done with Kuro and Wolf at that point he’d rather kill Kuro and capture whatever newborn the Dragon’s Heritage transfers to. Or he might believe Ashina is done for either way and is killing them for the sake of his own honor.

[Stardama69]

Originally posted by (Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr:

Originally posted by Stardama69:

Interesting. But Genichiro tries to murder Kuro at the end, right ?

Kuro bleeding acts as a means to show Genichiro has the other Mortal Blade.

He also might be so done with Kuro and Wolf at that point he’d rather kill Kuro and capture whatever newborn the Dragon’s Heritage transfers to. Or he might believe Ashina is done for either way and is killing them for the sake of his own honor.

It's certainly not the latter. He has long forsaken his honor at that point and he says something like "At least Ashina will rise again" just before Spear Saint Isshin bursts out of his body.

[(Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr]

Originally posted by Stardama69:

Originally posted by (Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr:

Kuro bleeding acts as a means to show Genichiro has the other Mortal Blade.

He also might be so done with Kuro and Wolf at that point he’d rather kill Kuro and capture whatever newborn the Dragon’s Heritage transfers to. Or he might believe Ashina is done for either way and is killing them for the sake of his own honor.

It's certainly not the latter. He has long forsaken his honor at that point and he says something like "At least Ashina will rise again" just before Spear Saint Isshin bursts out of his body.

Actually I believe he says, “With this, Ashina’s long night comes to an end.” Or something like that, which would insinuate the latter.

It’s Isshin that says, “His only wish was to see Ashina return.” I think.

[Stardama69]

Originally posted by (Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr:

Originally posted by Stardama69:

It's certainly not the latter. He has long forsaken his honor at that point and he says something like "At least Ashina will rise again" just before Spear Saint Isshin bursts out of his body.

Actually I believe he says, “With this, Ashina’s long night comes to an end.” Or something like that, which would insinuate the latter.

It’s Isshin that says, “His only wish was to see Ashina return.” I think.

You're right. "In the end, I was powerless, but... Grandfather was not. The dragon blood surging through her veins... [guess he means the sword] With this, Ashina's long night comes to an end." Then Isshin says "Pitiful grandchild... This was your last wish. To see Ashina returned from the great beyond. Which means, Sekiro... I must destroy you !"

[(Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr]

Originally posted by Stardama69:

Originally posted by (Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr:

Actually I believe he says, “With this, Ashina’s long night comes to an end.” Or something like that, which would insinuate the latter.

It’s Isshin that says, “His only wish was to see Ashina return.” I think.

You're right. "In the end, I was powerless, but... Grandfather was not. The dragon blood surging through her veins... [guess he means the sword] With this, Ashina's long night comes to an end." Then Isshin says "Pitiful grandchild... This was your last wish. To see Ashina returned from the great beyond. Which means, Sekiro... I must destroy you !"

Apparently Genichiro’s line is supposed to be a “Ashina will rise again” sort of thing. Both the region and the person. In Japanese he says something more like “the dawn will break for Ashina”, which makes it more clear.

[(Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr]

Also I think the “but grandfather was not” part of the dialogue was replaced in a patch, and he says, “but Ashina will rise once more” instead now.

[Stardama69]

Originally posted by (Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr:

Apparently Genichiro’s line is supposed to be a “Ashina will rise again” sort of thing. Both the region and the person. In Japanese he says something more like “the dawn will break for Ashina”, which makes it more clear.

Ty for this information ! Indeed it changes the meaning of the sentence or at least makes it more obvious.

Originally posted by (Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr:

Also I think the “but grandfather was not” part of the dialogue was replaced in a patch, and he says, “but Ashina will rise once more” instead now.

That must be it, I knew I had heard something like that. I'll check with my own game.