Combat Arts Spirit Emblem costs feel a bit overkill.

[Baklavah]

Where the costs are with regards to Prosthetic abilities feel fine. What I'm getting at is for the Combat Arts, the costs are punishing. Especially when we consider that the Ichimonji and the Ichimonji: Double are a thing.

Consider this. Mortal Draw, costs 3 SP every time you use it. You get a MAXIMUM of between 19-20 emblems (I'm fairly certain, but not 100%. If someone can confirm this it'd be appreciated). Empowered Mortal Draw costs 5 SP for every use. So, you either get to use your prosthetic skills OR your Combat Arts? :/ I could understand if MD cost 1 SP and EMD cost 2 SP. But 3-5? Seems a bit unnecessary to cost that much.

Same with the other late-game Combat Arts you can acquire. Why would you even bother using them when the Ichimonji: Double just stomps them all in terms of utility and usability? Immense posture damage, good health damage, can be swung twice in quick succession, recovers a massive amount of your own posture and costs ZERO SP. Something is very wrong here.

It makes me wonder if any of these skills are even remotely worth obtaining, since them costing SP is brutal and counter-intuitive. *shrug* at least that's my opinion...

Thoughts?

[aub]

Just to confirm, 20 emblems is the max. You get one latent art that increases emblems from killing A RESKIN OF THAT STUPID BULL, COME THE HELL ON!

[Baklavah]

Originally posted by tony:

Just to confirm, 20 emblems is the max. You get one latent art that increases emblems from killing A RESKIN OF THAT STUPID BULL, COME THE HELL ON!

Appreciate the confirmation. Also that's hella funny. lol

[BeerGrills]

20 is max but you can get 5 more by cutting yourself with a dagger and losing 50% hp for it. You can use that 3 times per rest, so the max is actually 35 but only if you#re willing to sacrifce health for it.

But yeah, I also really dont like them either and stick to ichimonji double.

[Kajiya]

Yeah , considering most of the combat skills are useless it kinda hurts they even use spirit emblems.

[Baklavah]

Originally posted by Kajiya:

Yeah , considering most of the combat skills are useless it kinda hurts they even use spirit emblems.

I was thinking it would be better if Mortal Draw cost 50% HP to swing, but if you connected each swing you would get 25% back per hit, totalling the 50 you consumed... so it would be a high risk high reward combat art... the way it is now, it's not worth using.

[Tyler McRae]

Honestly, I wish you had a higher total of emblems. Like, 100+, so you could -actually- use your tools more often. I feel like I can only use my tools on a few enemies, and get stuck unable to use them again until I kill more enemies. Or, if I fight a boss, I don't get to use them on the boss for real, because they run out -long- before they do their job in a boss fight, save a couple. Adding costs to combat arts just feels like a problem added to a problem. Especially with how useless Mortal Draw is, for it's emblem cost.

[^7ja^1co]

Spirit emblems are an annoyance at best. However they had to limit use of those not to make everything too easy.

[Dregora]

Originally posted by Tyler McRae:

Honestly, I wish you had a higher total of emblems. Like, 100+, so you could -actually- use your tools more often. I feel like I can only use my tools on a few enemies, and get stuck unable to use them again until I kill more enemies. Or, if I fight a boss, I don't get to use them on the boss for real, because they run out -long- before they do their job in a boss fight, save a couple. Adding costs to combat arts just feels like a problem added to a problem. Especially with how useless Mortal Draw is, for it's emblem cost.

Then you'll just stun lock bosses with your tools. That's why there's a low cost. You're not supposed to spam them. They're an alternative for when your weapon isn't enough.

[Baklavah]

Originally posted by ^7ja^1co:

Spirit emblems are an annoyance at best. However they had to limit use of those not to make everything too easy.

I just disagree with the costs on combat arts. It makes all the end-tier skills completely useless. Combat arts that have no emblem cost are in constant use.

Feels like a huge hinderance on the skills that would actually be useful, and yet are more of a burden because you either get to use your tools or have a VERY limited use of combat arts in a battle. Too limiting imo.

[AerialComb]

The cost is unfair but if you had more could make some bosses pretty easy, The Dragon Flash does brutal DMG to some bosses, and it helps a lot because it helps me to even the odds in a tough spot.

[The Undead Watcher]

In conclusion, make Ichimonji cost 5 Sm per swing, so people finally wake up and realize that all Combat arts are bad or just that Ichimonji needs a nerve. FML

[Baklavah]

Originally posted by The Undead Watcher:

In conclusion, make Ichimonji cost 5 Sm per swing, so people finally wake up and realize that all Combat arts are bad or just that Ichimonji needs a nerve. FML

Not all the combat arts are bad.

Whirlwind slash is 100% useable from start to finish. It's versatile and offers a multi-hit component to boot.

Nightjar slash and Nightjar reversal offer hit and run tactics with a get-in/get-out playstyle. They hit decently hard and allow you to attack going in and out of melee.

Flowing Passage isn't great but some enemies stagger on multiple hits. (guardian ape is one great example)

Some of the temple arts are useable but dangerous as well due to having to be at point blank range.

It's all about perception. But the combat arts that cost SP are not worth using as they hinder the use of prosthetic weapons. Very counter-intuitive.

If they really needed a modifier to manage them, FS could have added a "spirit meter" with chunks that fill as you attack and parry, and then you could have 3-4 uses of your super special combat arts before having to "refill" said chunks through combat.

There are better ways they could have done this, but it's too late now :(

[[OTS]EchoZenLogos]

The spirit emblem costs are a bit much, but not excessively so. The major problem isn't that the combat art take too many emblems - though I do think they could afford to cost slightly less (maybe 1/3 less on average). The major problem is that many of the combat arts that require tons of them are extremely underpowered, and even if they were "free" to use are still not worth it.

Dual Ichimonji for example costs none and does far more damage than many of the "high cost" combat skills. I prefer High Monk myself due to it also being useful as a counter to sweeps and jumping attacks. The charge skill can arguably be good if you need to close the gap a lot, even if it costs 2 emblems, and some others might be worth it. The 5-cost one that hits tons of times and costs 9 skill points to buy is utterly worthless, and I feel bad for buying it before other skills.

[f001er]

Empowered mortal draw cost 3, the same as normal one, does quite a lot of damage, can't be blocked or guarded in any way, staggers almost anything, have extented range and wide swing. There are fights when it is useful, and so is a lot of other combat arts.
Shadowrush and shadowfall can carry some of the fights really hard. Dragon flash does insane ranged damage. Arts are situational, just like tools. They are not meant to be answer to everything, even though i think shadowfall is very close to ultimate art.

[Baklavah]

Originally posted by f001er:

Empowered mortal draw cost 3, the same as normal one, does quite a lot of damage, can't be blocked or guarded in any way, staggers almost anything, have extented range and wide swing. There are fights when it is useful, and so is a lot of other combat arts.
Shadowrush and shadowfall can carry some of the fights really hard. Dragon flash does insane ranged damage. Arts are situational, just like tools. They are not meant to be answer to everything, even though i think shadowfall is very close to ultimate art.

I get that but the emblem costs are too high. They are absurd even. At the very least it should have been a rechargeable mechanic (like the spirit bar I mentioned). There's punishing and then there's sadistic. This is the latter.