Casual gamers are a detriment to the gaming industry.

[Fragmental]

The real reason Fromsoftware games stand out (in the AAA market) is because of their commitment to make a game that is actually good instead of simply appeasing the masses.

This game is a masterpiece and a shining example of what can be done if you just decide to execute a good vision without catering to dummies.

[Fruit Lord]

Agreed

[Teddy]

Yes, I don't think they will ever make a game for everybody, they are successful enough.

They are the Ikea of games, catering to specific crowd, still being very successful. The people that aren't enjoying have every right to, just don't understand why they refuse to move on.

[Justin_760]

Lol, umm.. Ok?

But in the real world, "casual" gamers are actually the backbone of the industry. You know, people with lives, families, jobs, people who dont have the time or willpower to master something just to be able to beat it. And those people tend to be the ones with plenty of disposable income.

So the industry NEEDS casual gamers, more so than the very (very) less substantial demographic of people who actually enjoy frustrating and punishing games.

And these games can be made without having an unreasonably rigid difficulty. You know, like that revolutionary gaming mechanic where you CHOOSE difficulty. From software games never sell great, hell the entire Dark Souls series sold less than the one PS4 Spider Man game made in a month. And there is a reason for that.

[Teddy]

Originally posted by Justin_760:

Lol, umm.. Ok?

But in the real world, "casual" gamers are actually the backbone of the industry. You know, people with lives, families, jobs, people who dont have the time or willpower to master something just to be able to beat it. And those people tend to be the ones with plenty of disposable income.

So the industry NEEDS casual gamers, more so than the very (very) less substantial demographic of people who actually enjoy frustrating and punishing games.

And these games can be made without having an unreasonably rigid difficulty. You know, like that revolutionary gaming mechanic where you CHOOSE difficulty. From software games never sell great, hell the entire Dark Souls series sold less than the one PS4 Spider Man game made in a month. And there is a reason for that.

No they are not, DS, Bb and Sekiro are a proof. I have a family and a job and I love these type of games. I got less time to play but that's not stopping me. Fromsoftware are more successful now than if they tried to cater to casuals as well.

[Diavolo]

Originally posted by Teddy:

Yes, I don't think they will ever make a game for everybody, they are successful enough.

They are the Ikea of games, catering to specific crowd, still being very successful. The people that aren't enjoying have every right to, just don't understand why they refuse to move on.

Probably because this game has a Japanese aesthetic. Nowadays a lot of people like that. But when they find out the game is hard they don't want to adapt and go mine salt on steam forums.

1. "Dark souls veterans" who beat dark souls game by summoning and are now mad because they are bad at the game and can't cheese it

2. "New players" who bought the game for it's aesthetic and are now mad because it's not some ubisoft like no brain game

[RIG-801]

There's also players that beat the game, master the combat system, but think it's not fun. Because it's not fun pushing left trigger over and over.

[Fragmental]

Originally posted by Justin_760:

Lol, umm.. Ok?

But in the real world, "casual" gamers are actually the backbone of the industry. You know, people with lives, families, jobs, people who dont have the time or willpower to master something just to be able to beat it. And those people tend to be the ones with plenty of disposable income.

So the industry NEEDS casual gamers, more so than the very (very) less substantial demographic of people who actually enjoy frustrating and punishing games.

And these games can be made without having an unreasonably rigid difficulty. You know, like that revolutionary gaming mechanic where you CHOOSE difficulty. From software games never sell great, hell the entire Dark Souls series sold less than the one PS4 Spider Man game made in a month. And there is a reason for that.

You don't need time to be able to enjoy mechanically rich games, many players of these games if not most have your so called "lives", because the demographic is largely adult, casual players are simply lazy and have no desire to learn or even actually make an effort. Just shut your brain off and enjoy the videogame. Whenever a game dares to break their
braindead trance they complain and mope about.

[Trapgat]

I consider myself a casual gamer and love the DS franchise etc. The fact that it's hard, doesn't make it only for the elitist. I consider someone a casual gamer when they put in 5-10 hours a week, compared to do 20+ per week you guys are doing.

[SinusMK]

I bought the game more for the reason that I like the setting. I never really wanted to play DarkSouls, because I thought it was too difficult and did not fit my taste. I love round based strategy games so I can take my time ;-)
A friend of mine (DarkSouls fan) always said I should give it a try.
I've done that with Sekiro now. It's not DS but I knew what I was getting into.
Did I regret it? only briefly, because the game is great.
Every fight makes you better and that's a good feeling. But I would not say that it is a tactical combat system. Rather, you make everything out of memory, but that's fine for me.
What surprises me is that many Souls players do not like the game. Maybe that's why I had a better start because I was not used to Soul's combat system.
I like the challenge and that's a good job of a "PvE" game.
Not like Destiny or Anthem, where every toddler just shoots down the life bar of motionless targets. Crazy Chicken is more demanding.

But, and I would like to say at this point, not everyone plays computer games for the same reasons. Some people just want to relax and get off work. I also enjoy just building a city.

[Wyrtt]

Originally posted by Justin_760:

Lol, umm.. Ok?

But in the real world, "casual" gamers are actually the backbone of the industry. You know, people with lives, families, jobs, people who dont have the time or willpower to master something just to be able to beat it. And those people tend to be the ones with plenty of disposable income.

So the industry NEEDS casual gamers, more so than the very (very) less substantial demographic of people who actually enjoy frustrating and punishing games.

And these games can be made without having an unreasonably rigid difficulty. You know, like that revolutionary gaming mechanic where you CHOOSE difficulty. From software games never sell great, hell the entire Dark Souls series sold less than the one PS4 Spider Man game made in a month. And there is a reason for that.

and mobile gaming brings more money than PC. Lets stop making pc games for those no lifers and all focus on f2p mobile games with 50$ loot boxes.
Also lets introduce timers so everyone can play for 5 minutes max in a single day to make it fair for busy ral man with jobs and families and responsibilities.

[Vermilion Knight]

Originally posted by protagonist:

The real reason Fromsoftware games stand out (in the AAA market) is because of their commitment to make a game that is actually good instead of simply appeasing the masses.

This game is a masterpiece and a shining example of what can be done if you just decide to execute a good vision without catering to dummies.

I agree 100%
Used to be a time where regular people would scoff at games, or think they were nerdy. So they could be as difficult and intricate as they needed to be in order to be unique and satisfying. Now they make them so damn easy a baby could smash it's head on the controller and complete a speed run. A lot of it is for profits, and companies cater to the money, but I'm glad From Software sticks to their guns and makes the games THEY want to make.

It's the reason why most games are yearly released garbage fortnite remakes.

[RevolverBigBosselote]

When you can't argue with criticism so you call the other person a casual. Instantly killing the casual in real life and attracting every woman within a five mile radius to have sex with you

[Evilsod]

Originally posted by Justin_760:

Lol, umm.. Ok?

But in the real world, "casual" gamers are actually the backbone of the industry. You know, people with lives, families, jobs, people who dont have the time or willpower to master something just to be able to beat it. And those people tend to be the ones with plenty of disposable income.

So the industry NEEDS casual gamers, more so than the very (very) less substantial demographic of people who actually enjoy frustrating and punishing games.

And these games can be made without having an unreasonably rigid difficulty. You know, like that revolutionary gaming mechanic where you CHOOSE difficulty. From software games never sell great, hell the entire Dark Souls series sold less than the one PS4 Spider Man game made in a month. And there is a reason for that.

I don't think you understand what a casual gamer is and why they pander to them. They pander to them because there are a lot of them. It's why the mobile game industry is big bucks.

From Software are clearly out to make good, challenging games not just bring in the big bucks by making it easily accessible. The Dark Souls series has made a name for itself and it has a legacy. Spider Man generic release 8 is something nobody will remember a few weeks after launch.

They are a successful company so they are clearly doing something right.

[Just A Wolf]

Originally posted by Justin_760:

Lol, umm.. Ok?

But in the real world, "casual" gamers are actually the backbone of the industry. You know, people with lives, families, jobs, people who dont have the time or willpower to master something just to be able to beat it. And those people tend to be the ones with plenty of disposable income.

So the industry NEEDS casual gamers, more so than the very (very) less substantial demographic of people who actually enjoy frustrating and punishing games.

And these games can be made without having an unreasonably rigid difficulty. You know, like that revolutionary gaming mechanic where you CHOOSE difficulty. From software games never sell great, hell the entire Dark Souls series sold less than the one PS4 Spider Man game made in a month. And there is a reason for that.

This whole thread honestly hurts my brain to read LOL, I'm with you. Appealing to more crowds is never a bad thing, it's about HOW you appeal to those crowds that makes the difference. A difficulty setting (aka implementing an Easy Mode) is a simple way to not have to compromise on vision and simply allow people who aren't capable of taking the time to master a game to still enjoy it. Sekiro isn't all about combat. The world is beautiful, the music is beautiful, the boss fights and enemy designs are beautiful. You don't need to be good at the game or be severely challenged by it to experience that. FS games demand a high skill barrier for entry anyway however (Sekrio ESPECIALLY), and people have the right to be frustrated about that. Hell, as a Soulsborne veteran, I was too. The game is ridiculously hard at the start, but it lets up once you get a better grasp on its mechanics and learn to analyze your opponents better. Would I ever cave into an Easy Mode? Probably not, but if I didn't have as many hours of the day as I wanted to play these games that could change. I hate wasting time, and if a game is so brutally hard that it expects me to die and run through areas over and over again just to retry *one* encounter then you can bet I'm gonna feel like I'm wasting valuable time if I was, say, working a full-time job.

[=CJ=]

Originally posted by protagonist:

Originally posted by Justin_760:

Lol, umm.. Ok?

But in the real world, "casual" gamers are actually the backbone of the industry. You know, people with lives, families, jobs, people who dont have the time or willpower to master something just to be able to beat it. And those people tend to be the ones with plenty of disposable income.

So the industry NEEDS casual gamers, more so than the very (very) less substantial demographic of people who actually enjoy frustrating and punishing games.

And these games can be made without having an unreasonably rigid difficulty. You know, like that revolutionary gaming mechanic where you CHOOSE difficulty. From software games never sell great, hell the entire Dark Souls series sold less than the one PS4 Spider Man game made in a month. And there is a reason for that.

You don't need time to be able to enjoy mechanically rich games, many players of these games if not most have your so called "lives", because the demographic is largely adult, casual players are simply lazy and have no desire to learn or even actually make an effort. Just shut your brain off and enjoy the videogame. Whenever a game dares to break their
braindead trance they complain and mope about.

This elitism is ridiculous. You do realise games are entertainment right? Not a PhD or a job. Maybr people have different goals in life than to master a video game. If someone wants a casual 'braindead' game to play to relax and unwind after their stressful real lives then more power to them. Not everyone aspires to be 'hardcore'. You're really going to crap on a concert pianist for enjoying a casual game that you don't see as 'mechanically rich' enough to warrant respect?

And before the torrent of 'git gud' replies, I love this game and the challenge.