Who backstabs you after the Lady Butterfly boss fight?

[millerman]

Who do you think backstabs you after the Lady Butterfly boss fight? I think it's Owl tbh, I mean you fight him at the exact same spot as her in some ending, plus, the blade the stabs you kinda looks like his.

[Moostashi]

goka9696 a écrit :

xubo.leo a écrit :

According to what Kuro said after the wolf was stabbed. Wolf does not have the immortal capability yet. After the death, Kuro used his blood to bring wolf back.

Genichiro overall is samurai and he will fight honourably. Backstab, according to personality, it should be Owl.

Who is commanding to kidnap Kuro - Genichiro.


So Genichiro's order to extract Kuro from Hirata Estate. Owl allied with bandits and used wolf to kill the lady butterfly. then killed wolf to get Kuro.

That's my overall understanding.

Owl is working with the ministry, not Genichiro. This is evident by lone shadows being all over the place.

And Genichiro is hardly honorable. He uses allies to win if you get an upper hand in the beginning, and utilizes a ranged weapon in the duel.

That Owl works with the Ministy & Genichiro fights for Ashina is obvious - but it still leaves a big freaking hole in the main narrative -> How exactly does the Divine Heir go from being at Owls & his interior ministry allies mercy (after they had just killed his bodyguard - Sekiro) to being a prisoner of the very leader of the opposite side; Genichiro Ashina? There’s no way in hell the interior ministry would let the divine heir be given over to their main enemy because whoever holds him also holds the legitimacy to rule Ashina & some very powerful magic.

[(Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr]

Moostashi a écrit :

(Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr a écrit :

Owl doesn’t have anything to gain by giving Kuro to Genichiro. Owl also allies himself with the Interior Ministry, who are adversaries with Genichiro.

I suspected Isshin just brought Kuro to Ashina Castle after Hirata Estate fell for his protection. Genichiro only mentions meeting Kuro once before, at a funeral. Isshin then orchestrates the attempt for Sekiro to take Kuro out of Ashina in the tutorial.

But when you start the game Kuro is specifically imprisoned up in the moon view tower by Genichiro - how did he become a prisoner if he went with Isshin?

Because Isshin is like the king, and Genichiro the prince and military commander. Both are Lords of Ashina. If you are under the rule of Isshin, you are also under the rule of Genichiro.

Genichiro may have sent Kuro to the tower as far as the guards know, but it’s clear the whole situation is a setup by Isshin to try and get Kuro out of Ashina, without Genichiro finding out Isshin is conspiring against him. Remember the tower has a large hole in the side of it, and Emma, who works for Isshin, gives Wolf the note in the well to rescue Kuro.

Moostashi a écrit :

I think it’s more likely Owl gives him over & that Owl colludes with the ministry & bandits to destroy Hirata estate & have Butterfly kill Sekiro specifically so that Genichiro can become Kuros protector/shinobi, get accepted into the immortal oath & with that immortal power destroy the ministry & secure Ashina. Otherwise Owl is basically just a big troll.

Owl wants to become immortal through Kuro’s dragon heritage. Giving Genichiro that power would hinder his goal.

Lady Butterfly probably isn’t working for Owl here either. I suspect she knew it was Owl who betrayed the Estate and is fighting Wolf because she believes he’s also in on the attack. This is why she calls him “son of Owl” instead of Wolf when you first meet.

I would say that either Owl stabbed Wolf so that Kuro would make him immortal, and Owl believed he could use Wolf later.

Or Owl was trying to get to Kuro himself, but couldn’t find him in time, perhaps due to some illusion Lady Butterfly put on him. And Kuro gives Wolf his blood after Owl is already gone.

[xubo.leo]

goka9696 a écrit :

xubo.leo a écrit :

According to what Kuro said after the wolf was stabbed. Wolf does not have the immortal capability yet. After the death, Kuro used his blood to bring wolf back.

Genichiro overall is samurai and he will fight honourably. Backstab, according to personality, it should be Owl.

Who is commanding to kidnap Kuro - Genichiro.


So Genichiro's order to extract Kuro from Hirata Estate. Owl allied with bandits and used wolf to kill the lady butterfly. then killed wolf to get Kuro.

That's my overall understanding.

Owl is working with the ministry, not Genichiro. This is evident by lone shadows being all over the place.

And Genichiro is hardly honorable. He uses allies to win if you get an upper hand in the beginning, and utilizes a ranged weapon in the duel.

If owl is working for the ministry. Kuro finally ended up in the custody of Genechiro. This seems unlogical.

Ministry seems knowing the intelligence information about Genechiro. So all red dudes have better douse powder and extremely strong fire weapon.
My understanding is the Ministry has no intention to get Kuro's power.

[Moostashi]

To me it doesn't make sense at all that Genichiro & Isshin are on the same page though. Because there are 3 Nightjar ninjas guarding the entrance to Isshin who is himself locked in a tower.
Emma is hired as Isshins doctor but also works as his spy & Isshin uses her to conspire against Genichiro. Maybe Isshin & Genichiro were on the same page but disagreed on whether or not to use Kuros blood.
It just seems very unlikely that the old friend of Owl, Lady Butterfly, who was hired by Owl to train Sekiro to become a Shinobi in his youth, would all of a sudden ally with Genichiro & show up at Hirata estates hidden temple, to which only Owl had the key, just to kill Sekiro & snatch Kuro?

Either way, it's not a very straight forward & good story. The narrative is easy to get but there's huge gaping hole in the foundation of the main story IMO

[xubo.leo]

Moostashi a écrit :

To me it doesn't make sense at all that Genichiro & Isshin are on the same page though. Because there are 3 Nightjar ninjas guarding the entrance to Isshin who is himself locked in a tower.
Emma is hired as Isshins doctor but also works as his spy & Isshin uses her to conspire against Genichiro. Maybe Isshin & Genichiro were on the same page but disagreed on whether or not to use Kuros blood.
It just seems very unlikely that the old friend of Owl, Lady Butterfly, who was hired by Owl to train Sekiro to become a Shinobi in his youth, would all of a sudden ally with Genichiro & show up at Hirata estates hidden temple, to which only Owl had the key, just to kill Sekiro & snatch Kuro?

Either way, it's not a very straight forward & good story. The narrative is easy to get but there's huge gaping hole in the foundation of the main story IMO

maybe this gap is for DLC hopefully. So we can fully understand what happened 3 years ago.

There is another explanation is lady butterfly is also seeking the immortality and She is using illusion to control Kuro to do so and she was interrupted by Sekiro.

The evidence is she already has the Sakura Droplet which she drops after wolf defeated her. so she is seeking dragon power actively since she is old.

[Krono]

xubo.leo a écrit :

maybe this gap is for DLC hopefully. So we can fully understand what happened 3 years ago.

There is another explanation is lady butterfly is also seeking the immortality and She is using illusion to control Kuro to do so and she was interrupted by Sekiro.

The evidence is she already has the Sakura Droplet which she drops after wolf defeated her. so she is seeking dragon power actively since she is old.

True, it's entirely possible that Lady Butterfly was also doing her own schemes. If Owl set up the attack she may have betrayed him and tried to take the power for herself, but this makes me wonder why Owl would fake his own death.

Perhaps he was waiting to see who would win between Wolf and Butterfly so he could kill the (no doubt tired and wounded) victor

[Moostashi]

I am replaying the games 4 endings (with my new BenQ 35” ultra wide HDR screen) to see if I find something I missed before when I skimmed through the sake dialogues. It’s a truly great game, though I wish it was a full RPG

[Krono]

Alright, so playing through again, when you go back to the second memory and you run into the very first Lone Shadow miniboss, he says "You were supposed to be dead". There's no way anybody could've known Wolf had died at this point, and we know these are Owl's men, so it had to have been him that did it.

[LightLance]

(Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr a écrit :

Owl wants to become immortal through Kuro’s dragon heritage. Giving Genichiro that power would hinder his goal.

We don’t know exactly when he started want it. We know for sure that he wanted this when Kuro was under the tutelage of Genichiro.

[goka9696]

LightLance a écrit :

(Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr a écrit :

Owl wants to become immortal through Kuro’s dragon heritage. Giving Genichiro that power would hinder his goal.

We don’t know exactly when he started want it. We know for sure that he wanted this when Kuro was under the tutelage of Genichiro.

He was always power hungry. That's the entire reason number one rule is to obey the parent first and foremost, so that Sekiro would obey him.

[Moostashi]

Xander a écrit :

Moostashi a écrit :

I am replaying the games 4 endings (with my new BenQ 35” ultra wide HDR screen)

show off

It’s a great display - looks gorgeous with the UW mod & HDR ;)

[SotiCoto]

I came here to see if there was any sort of absolute proof regarding who did the backstabbity... but apparently nothing completely solid.

Still, who else could it be besides Owl? Genshiro? He wasn't even part of the story when the event happened. Some random nobody? They would have to be a better shinobi than Wolf to pull it off.

I've never done the Purification Ending. In fact I've never done any good ending. I certainly haven't seen the discussed scene of Wolf defending against another backstab. I did the Shura ending and I'm on my 2nd playthrough now....

... but I couldn't help but notice in the Shura Ending cutscene that Owl suffers exactly the same sword through the back from exactly the same camera angle that Wolf did in Hirata Estate (provoking my laughter and "payback's a b!tch!" remark when I saw it).

Not to mention that Owl taught Wolf... who then goes on to spend the entire game stabbing his sword through peoples' backs (and activating special powers with it)... so obviously he was taught to do that by Owl.

PLUS we know Owl gave him the key to the room, and so knew exactly where he would be (and told him how to get there).


So logically it couldn't be anyone but Owl. And I say that without ever having progressed beyond the Shura ending.

[Æɴɪsᴏ]

Pretty sure is just the those tiny troll looking things that hid and sneak attacked Sekiro.

[serenity.]

it was owl. the sword...

[David Benioff]

Owl. It's heavily implied during the cutscene before the shinobi owl fight.