Isshin Ashina and Isshin Sword Saint, who is more difficult?

[khamthien251]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJitCfy8ZbU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjMgVbK1xfA

In my opinion, Old Isshin is more difficult than Isshin SS. His fire attack can't be reverse like lightning attack. And he is the only boss in the game can dogde and counter. Also a grab move at close range which sometime i can't reaction quick enough.

btw, Emma make Genichiro looks like child's play, why doesn't she drop a memory????

What do you thinks?

[Tikus Tycoon]

ISS has plenty of room for us to run around like a headless chicken, so it's easier

[Goilveig]

I do agree that the Sword Saint arena helps make the fight easier by giving more room to heal. In the castle, the cramped quarters paired with his high mobility make it risky to disengage and heal.

The Sword Saint fight also has the benefit that his final phase is easier than the phase before it, since lightning is a net reduction in difficulty, while fire is a net increase. That said, it's an entire phase longer, even if Genichiro is easy to kill without taking damage.

[TyresTyco]

I dunno. I did shura once. It took me only an hour to beat them. While SSisshin took me 5.

Maybe because Old Isshin 1 and 2 (minus fire) are similiar to Ssisshin 1. And I wreck Ssisshin 1 since I practiced a lot with him.

I however. Have no idea how he never got me with his one mind fire edition. I was like a headless chicken and was lucky enough to avoid it somehow.

[Sasha Mason]

Old Isshin can just dodge your attack and counter. Also, one mind and fire AoE is hella op. But overall hard to say. Sword Saint has a gun and huge melee range while fire Isshin has a small arena. I think I struggled more with Sword Saint than with fire Isshin but I think I'm also gonna go with fire Isshin as the more difficult boss, mostly for the small boss arena.

[khamthien251]

oh you guy are right about the arena. No wonder sometimes Old Isshin can stab me while healing

[Teddy]

I think both are equally hard, Emma was more challenging than Genichiro imo

[Blazing]

Normal Isshin took me longer and more effort to beat than Sword Saint variant. That being said, I only beat the first once - on NG+. So it's possible, if the scaling is similar to DS, that I just got unlucky there.

[Aryend]

Personally I think Sword Saint is slightly harder. Old Isshin is too similar to his and SS's first phase, just with some fire attacks added, which aren't that bad once you learn to avoid them. Ss Isshins third phase on the other hand is pretty damn relentless.
Agreed Emma is harder than Genichiro, but she goes down quick enough.

[MrLayLay]

Both were quite equal in terms of difficutly for me, with Sword Saint only being slightly harder. Normal Isshin isn't as aggresive as Sword Saint, but he does have a lot of one shot potential (Like that fire erruption attack where he charges you afterwards) and his area is small, which can
add some difficulty. Maria is also way harder than Genichiro imo so to start off with her, can leave you with less healing tools, when you actually fight Isshin.

He however has quite a few moves that are easy to dodge, allowing you to get free hits compared to sword saint where you have to deflect a ton.

[alicerinz]

Ashina and his fire attacks

[Krono]

I definitely think SS is more difficult, all of old Isshin's special fire attacks can be avoided by simply strafing around him, letting you get a few free hits in on his back. The arena is smaller sure, but there's still more than enough room to run away and heal, and you don't have the risk of getting shot by a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ gun when you stop to heal.

After that, Old Isshin isn't that different compared to SS Isshin. I do love Old Isshin's slick dodge, it's pretty nice
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1699904894

[Goilveig]

Originally posted by Krono:

The arena is smaller sure, but there's still more than enough room to run away and heal

I still had a lot of trouble doing so. I'd commonly use up my resurrections with like 6-8 gourd charges left because it was so risky to actually back off and heal, and very often I'd get hit and get stuck in a cycle of always trying to disengage to heal again.

Although on Phase 2 you can circle behind a fire attack and use the chance to heal.

[Krono]

Originally posted by Goilveig:

I still had a lot of trouble doing so. I'd commonly use up my resurrections with like 6-8 gourd charges left because it was so risky to actually back off and heal, and very often I'd get hit and get stuck in a cycle of always trying to disengage to heal again.

Yeah, I feel ya there, he can be a speedy boi. For me, I'm used to disengaging from FromSoft bosses and I guess it's just intuitive for me at this point whether the boss is gonna slowly stalk me and give me time to heal, or suddenly lunge as I press the item use button

[Lusus Symphonia]

Isshin Ashina is definitely harder than Sword Saint (why is he even called that? Should be spear saint) as his third phase is a joke with his lightning attack being so slow and easy to return to him.

His swords phase was a joke too with the overhead chops being easy to avoid and thrusts being easy to counter, lesst his flame damage punished blocking/deflecting

[OCTDUMPUS]

I think the sword saint is a bit harder, both of their phase 1 are practically the same, except for fire Isshin can dodge, which is still pretty manageable as long as you dont spam attack.

For phase 2, although most of his fire attacks are dangerous, they are mostly telegraphic for you to dodge behind and punish, when he tries to do One mind, just Ichimonji his ass, pretty manageable after you know his patterns.

But unlike Fire Isshin, Sword Saint's phase 2 attacks although deal about the same damage,
they are more erratic. The dragon flash and Ashina Cross can be blocked entirely with the umbrella. The real problem is his sword-spear combos after he gets a hit in or a deflect, those attacks like the retreating spear slash are fast, unpredictable and have generous range, making most of the deflects reactionary, taking one hit in those combos could very well mean death, moreso in NG runs. For that, I think Sword Saint is a bit harder than Fire Isshin