Soldiers of Ashina (Spoilers?)

[DaniTheHero]

I've beat the game a couple of times already but there's something i don't understand.

Why are the soldiers of Ashina hostile towards us? Ishin, who is the true leader of the lands doesn't mind us at all, and even talks to us on the battlefield (As Tengu) and yet they target us and we are forced to kill them.
Not to mention that even though we continue killing every single soldier and general in the castle, Ishin remains friendly towards us.

Speaking of killing every single soldier and boss in the outskirts and castle.
Doesn't that mean Ashina gets successfully invaded BECAUSE of us?
If we haven't killed the numerous generals, the bull, the ogre and the Horse Rider and so on would they defend themselves better?

[DaniTheHero]

Originally posted by Cabbage:

Yeah,Isshin was the only real power there. The dude could single-handedly slaughter any army.

If that's true and we are capable of beating him in his prime(Final true boss), isn't Sekiro able to slaughter an army on his own?

[Krono]

Originally posted by DaniTheHero:

If that's true and we are capable of beating him in his prime(Final true boss), isn't Sekiro able to slaughter an army on his own?

Sekiro is more of a speedy, mobile fighter than a big brute force fighter, in-game we have trouble dealing with groups of enemies but Isshin with his super moves and large sweeping attacks could easily mow through grunts.

[Zu]

Originally posted by Krono:

Isshin has super armor and a double-sized Syan's halberd.

Ye, matchups are a thing. (And well, he's also designed to be beatable. Sword saint dlc when?)

[Krono]

Originally posted by Zu:

Originally posted by Krono:

Isshin has super armor and a double-sized Syan's halberd.

Ye, matchups are a thing. (And well, he's also designed to be beatable. Sword saint dlc when?)

Yeah, I’d compare it to a dude with a rapier vs a dude with a bigass warhammer. The rapier guy would win in a nice 1v1 duel, but the warhammer guy would do better in the chaos of the battlefield in heavy armor and ♥♥♥♥

[alicerinz]

Originally posted by DaniTheHero:

Originally posted by Cabbage:

Yeah,Isshin was the only real power there. The dude could single-handedly slaughter any army.

If that's true and we are capable of beating him in his prime(Final true boss), isn't Sekiro able to slaughter an army on his own?

In Shura ending,Sekiro does slaughter a couple thousand people.

[DaniTheHero]

Originally posted by Cabbage:

Originally posted by DaniTheHero:

If that's true and we are capable of beating him in his prime(Final true boss), isn't Sekiro able to slaughter an army on his own?

In Shura ending,Sekiro does slaughter a couple thousand people.

I never understood that ending.
Sekiro went from empathic to a cold blooded killer in a manner of minutes, as the only thing that changed was the decision to kill Emma and Ishin and suddenly he is rampanging and killing everyone starting with his dad, that just moments ago he obeyed?

[Lusus Symphonia]

Originally posted by DaniTheHero:

Originally posted by Cabbage:

In Shura ending,Sekiro does slaughter a couple thousand people.

I never understood that ending.
Sekiro went from empathic to a cold blooded killer in a manner of minutes, as the only thing that changed was the decision to kill Emma and Ishin and suddenly he is rampanging and killing everyone starting with his dad, that just moments ago he obeyed?

By obeying the iron code and going for the Shura ending, it's basically just showing you that Wolf was only doing his duty to the iron code the entire game, not because he cared.
By killing Emma and Isshin, he gave into his blood lust, after all, he only exists to kill.

[DaniTheHero]

Originally posted by Red Monk:

Originally posted by DaniTheHero:

I never understood that ending.
Sekiro went from empathic to a cold blooded killer in a manner of minutes, as the only thing that changed was the decision to kill Emma and Ishin and suddenly he is rampanging and killing everyone starting with his dad, that just moments ago he obeyed?

By obeying the iron code and going for the Shura ending, it's basically just showing you that Wolf was only doing his duty to the iron code the entire game, not because he cared.
By killing Emma and Isshin, he gave into his blood lust, after all, he only exists to kill.

Could’ve just as well been him caring about his Father more and that’s why he obeyed and not because he is a complete robot.

[Lusus Symphonia]

Originally posted by DaniTheHero:

Originally posted by Red Monk:

By obeying the iron code and going for the Shura ending, it's basically just showing you that Wolf was only doing his duty to the iron code the entire game, not because he cared.
By killing Emma and Isshin, he gave into his blood lust, after all, he only exists to kill.

Could’ve just as well been him caring about his Father more and that’s why he obeyed and not because he is a complete robot.

I think their relationship is built more around respect rather than love, Wolf owes his entire life to Owl and will do anything for him as he sees himself purely as a tool.

Wolf died many years ago on the inside during the war.

[Kaitos Mogh]

The first thing that should come to mind, if you want to know what happens in the Shura Ending, is to look up what a "Shura" or "Ashura" is.

In Sekiro's case, it's not entirely clear to me though. Either he is possessed by, or he has become a god or demon of war. Whatever exactly happens to him, it's an elegant way to justify such a drastic change in character.

[Krono]

Originally posted by Leviathan:

In Sekiro's case, it's not entirely clear to me though. Either he is possessed by, or he has become a god or demon of war. Whatever exactly happens to him, it's an elegant way to justify such a drastic change in character.

I believe it’s more that he “became” Shura rather than there being some evil deity that possessed him. I’ve seen it mentioned in other works before as well, it always refers to someone who went mad with power basically, living only to kill. It pops up in Japanese martial arts stories a lot

[Krono]

To clarify, it's kinda up to interpretation. "Shura" is the Japanese way of saying "Asura", which are:

Asuras are sometimes considered nature spirits. They battle constantly with the devas.[1] Asuras are described in Indian texts as powerful superhuman demigods with good or bad qualities. The good Asuras are called Adityas and are led by Varuna, while the malevolent ones are called Danavas and are led by Vritra.[2] In the earliest layer of Vedic texts Agni, Indra and other gods are also called Asuras, in the sense of them being "lords" of their respective domains, knowledge and abilities. In later Vedic and post-Vedic texts, the benevolent gods are called Devas, while malevolent Asuras compete against these Devas and are considered "enemy of the gods".

They're generally interpreted as being "bad" since they oppose the benevolent Devas.

Sometimes they're described as being possessed by Shura, sometimes they become Shura (like I believe they do in Sekiro) or they "fall down the Path of Shura" in more grounded works.

[colemanscollard]

Originally posted by Washing Machine:

Not only is their manpower probably worse, but they're clearly less trained and worse equipped. The generic soldiers wear pretty much rags and many of them sit around having given up entirely during the invasion. Ministry troops have full body armor, superior weapons and clearly better training.

Owl's invasion had some backup from Ministry, and that backup was already enough to make that invasion a success. Full scale attack with their main troops it was just game over for Ashina.

They were doomed from the beginning.

I mean yeah the generic troops are, horribly equipped they're Ashigaru. I'm pretty sure the Demon of Hatred is fighting Samurai in the castle courtyard when you first find him. The dudes in full red gear with guns and ♥♥♥♥? Don't quote me on that though, I wasn't able to find anything to back that up.

[colemanscollard]

Originally posted by DaniTheHero:

I've beat the game a couple of times already but there's something i don't understand.

Why are the soldiers of Ashina hostile towards us? Ishin, who is the true leader of the lands doesn't mind us at all, and even talks to us on the battlefield (As Tengu) and yet they target us and we are forced to kill them.
Not to mention that even though we continue killing every single soldier and general in the castle, Ishin remains friendly towards us.

Speaking of killing every single soldier and boss in the outskirts and castle.
Doesn't that mean Ashina gets successfully invaded BECAUSE of us?
If we haven't killed the numerous generals, the bull, the ogre and the Horse Rider and so on would they defend themselves better?

Yes, Wolf kinda ♥♥♥♥♥ an already dying garrison. It was obviously never well defended but all one really needs to hold a gate is a few guys with muskets and Gyoubu to sally out along the cliffs once in a while. The invasion took its toll, we just kinda mercy killed.

[Krono]

Originally posted by colemanscollard:

I mean yeah the generic troops are, horribly equipped they're Ashigaru. I'm pretty sure the Demon of Hatred is fighting Samurai in the castle courtyard when you first find him. The dudes in full red gear with guns and ♥♥♥♥? Don't quote me on that though, I wasn't able to find anything to back that up.

He was fighting Ministry soldiers yeah, I don't think it was on purpose though. He was just rampaging and those poor ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ happened to be closest.