O'Rin of the Water lore *SPOILERS OF COURSE*

[Neoslevia]

Anyone who's fought her knows she's obsessed with finding this Lord Sakuza fellow.

Well, after just fighting her and doing the quest with that warrior Kumano who can hear her shamisen playing, she says something along the lines of "Lord Sakuza has brought that man to me, I'm so happy.". Well, Sekiro technically brought him to her by doing his questline.

So I have the idea, and if there is evidence that says otherwise please tell me, that what if Sekiro is Lord Sakuza?

I mean, not much is actually known about Sekiro's background other than Owl finds him in a battlefield when he's a child, as far as I know.

And all we know of Lord Sakuza is that he is a man who must have some connection to O'Rin.
And the unique Jizo statue you get from Kumano after beating her is "symbol of paternal love", which would imply that instead of O'Rin being Sakuza's lover, she was actually his mother. Or perhaps, Sekiro's mother.

O'Rin can also be translated to simply "Lady Rin", which may suggest a nobility connection.

I could be completely wrong of course, and I would be interested in any evidence to suggest otherwise if there is any, and this is only at best a half-baked theory. But what are your thoughts on the matter? Have I missed anything vital?

[Chrysalis]

I don't know/think that she is in any form related to Sekiro, but what we do know is, that she is a descendant of the Okami clan, just like these snake eye gunners. That's also why the ancient blade of Sabimaru is affective against her.

One of my theories about her is, that she was a spy before her death. I think this because she can wield her sword with much skill and grace, and she wears a basket on her head. This kind of headwear is traditinally only worn bei Komusō monks. These monks wander the land and play the Shakuhachi (bamboo-flute) and are historicaly all male (I'm not 100% sure). So she probably isn't a monk herself, but only dressed up as one to hide her identity or gender. A normal noble woman probably wouldn't be skilled in combat and concealment arts, except if she was a spy.

Maybe this Lord Sakuza was her master and after some time her loyalty turned to love. I can't say if Sakuza loved O'rin too, or if he rejected her, but something happened that took him away from her. Maybe he married another woman, or he died and left O'rin with a broken heart. Because of this rejected or unfulfilled love, she became a mournful spirit after her death, cursed to search Sakuza for eternity.

[Neoslevia]

Originally posted by Chrysalis:

I don't know/think that she is in any form related to Sekiro, but what we do know is, that she is a descendant of the Okami clan, just like these snake eye gunners. That's also why the ancient blade of Sabimaru is affective against her.

One of my theories about her is, that she was a spy before her death. I think this because she can wield her sword with much skill and grace, and she wears a basket on her head. This kind of headwear is traditinally only worn bei Komusō monks. These monks wander the land and play the Shakuhachi (bamboo-flute) and are historicaly all male (I'm not 100% sure). So she probably isn't a monk herself, but only dressed up as one to hide her identity or gender. A normal noble woman probably wouldn't be skilled in combat and concealment arts, except if she was a spy.

Maybe this Lord Sakuza was her master and after some time her loyalty turned to love. I can't say if Sakuza loved O'rin too, or if he rejected her, but something happened that took him away from her. Maybe he married another woman, or he died and left O'rin with a broken heart. Because of this rejected or unfulfilled love, she became a mournful spirit after her death, cursed to search Sakuza for eternity.

Hmm, interesting idea.

After thinking on it some more, I agree it's highly unlikely that O'Rin has any relation to Sekiro.

Her being a spy/kunoichi (whom mainly specialised in infiltration over espionage) in the service of this Sakuza is a more likely theory.

Another possibility is that she was actually assigned to spy on Sakuza as a geisha/concubine (a common practice amongst Japanese nobility), but wound up falling in love with him to the point of obsession.

As for how Jinzaemon is connected; it's possible he is some kind of direct descendant of Sakuza, seeing as it's him that gives you the Jizo statue and not O'Rin, which would imply Sakuza did marry some other woman, or at least had children with them.

Whatever the case, I feel the unique statue is worth looking into, its description:

"Lord Sakuza... Please take this cloth and use it to bundle this little one, so that he may live on in peace."

To me, this speaks of some unfortunate child that met a terrible end. Whether miscarried due to the nature of O'Rin's true profession, or falling to the Dragonrot epidemic all those years ago, we may never know. But given that O'Rin says she sent Sakuza countless letters, it's highly likely that the statue was bundled in with one of them to give to him, with her being unable to lay the child to rest.

[Shpeed Buscemi]

She is based on Japanese folklore.

"This story takes place during the Kyoho era (1716-1736). A samurai named Hotsumi Kanji,a minor prefect in Kitakuni province, was making his prescribed annual trip to the capital at Edo one year when he stopped at an inn along the way.

From his room, he heard the most beautiful singing voice he had ever heard in his life. It was coming from one of the rooms of the inn, and belonged to a goze, one of the blind women who traveled the country making their living performing on the shamisen.

Thinking that a voice so beautiful must be attached to an equally beautiful body, Hotsumi resolved to have the woman. Discovering which room was hers, he hid in the dark, waiting for her to return. When the goze returned, Hotsumi sprang from his hiding place and ravished her, an act which the woman was not opposed to in the least.

The next morning, Hotsumi was shocked to discover that the woman with the beautiful voice was unspeakably ugly. Her hideous faced beamed at him with a look of pure joy, thinking that she had at last found love. But nothing could be further from the truth—Hotsumi quickly concocted a plan, and took the woman with him on his way to Edo. On a convenient mountain road, he pushed the ugly blind woman into a ravine, killing her. Thinking he had solved the problem quite nicely, Hotsumi continued on his business.

The following year, Hotsumi had completely forgotten about the incident. Again, the time came for his trip to Edo, and this time he stopped at a small mountain temple to spend the night. That night, the yurei of the goze appeared before him. She said to him:

“Have you already forgotten last Autumn? You played with me, and then tossed me away when you were finished. I have no eyes, but I see you now!”

She grabbed Hotsumi by his ankles and tore him from his bed. He struggled to break away from her, but his strength was nothing compared to her rage-fueled power. Hotsumi saw himself being dragged to the temple’s graveyard. The goze stopped before a certain grave, smiled slightly, then embraced Hotsumi and drove him into the earth with one strong pull.

The monks of the temple heard the commotion and ran to see what the matter was. They followed the trail to the graveyard, and after retrieving shovels they dug quickly into the earth. They soon found Hotsumi’s body, with the skeleton of a woman wrapped around it. By fate or bad luck Hotsumi had chosen the temple where the goze’s body was buried after it had been discovered down in the ravine. And she had come to claim him."

[khamthien251]

Originally posted by Cool:

She is based on Japanese folklore.

"This story takes place during the Kyoho era (1716-1736). A samurai named Hotsumi Kanji,a minor prefect in Kitakuni province, was making his prescribed annual trip to the capital at Edo one year when he stopped at an inn along the way.

From his room, he heard the most beautiful singing voice he had ever heard in his life. It was coming from one of the rooms of the inn, and belonged to a goze, one of the blind women who traveled the country making their living performing on the shamisen.

Thinking that a voice so beautiful must be attached to an equally beautiful body, Hotsumi resolved to have the woman. Discovering which room was hers, he hid in the dark, waiting for her to return. When the goze returned, Hotsumi sprang from his hiding place and ravished her, an act which the woman was not opposed to in the least.

The next morning, Hotsumi was shocked to discover that the woman with the beautiful voice was unspeakably ugly. Her hideous faced beamed at him with a look of pure joy, thinking that she had at last found love. But nothing could be further from the truth—Hotsumi quickly concocted a plan, and took the woman with him on his way to Edo. On a convenient mountain road, he pushed the ugly blind woman into a ravine, killing her. Thinking he had solved the problem quite nicely, Hotsumi continued on his business.

The following year, Hotsumi had completely forgotten about the incident. Again, the time came for his trip to Edo, and this time he stopped at a small mountain temple to spend the night. That night, the yurei of the goze appeared before him. She said to him:

“Have you already forgotten last Autumn? You played with me, and then tossed me away when you were finished. I have no eyes, but I see you now!”

She grabbed Hotsumi by his ankles and tore him from his bed. He struggled to break away from her, but his strength was nothing compared to her rage-fueled power. Hotsumi saw himself being dragged to the temple’s graveyard. The goze stopped before a certain grave, smiled slightly, then embraced Hotsumi and drove him into the earth with one strong pull.

The monks of the temple heard the commotion and ran to see what the matter was. They followed the trail to the graveyard, and after retrieving shovels they dug quickly into the earth. They soon found Hotsumi’s body, with the skeleton of a woman wrapped around it. By fate or bad luck Hotsumi had chosen the temple where the goze’s body was buried after it had been discovered down in the ravine. And she had come to claim him."

Wow, a cool ghost story, but if you angle the camera to see Orin's face, she's not that ugly...

[Chrysalis]

Cool story, but I don't think it fits with the O'rin, she seems to love Lord Sakuza, not hate him.

[This is Hunk! From Alpha team.]

i think that the original lore is only correct that part where Orin loves the Lord. My bet is she was a spy then felt in love with the lord (if im not wrong, then the lord is the elile that we fight in the Dojo). Somehow he realized that she was a spy then rejected her love, maybe killing her, then dumbed her body in the well, which is the path leads to Ashina Depth. That explains why she is at the Depth and a apparation. She still loves him and keep moaning about how she cant be with him. The warrior that we met at the well is just struck by lightning of love, wanted to be with her and ended up getting killed by her. (after all she kills anyone that's not the lord right :))). ) But why she said that the lord sent the man after we killed her ---> no one can understand a woman's mind, especially the one who are in love. LOL.

[Chrysalis]

Maybe she thinks that lord Sakuza sent this man to keep her company and that's why she thanks him, or the man she talks about is Sekiro and she's thankful beause we freed her.

[This is Hunk! From Alpha team.]

Originally posted by Chrysalis:

Maybe she thinks that lord Sakuza sent this man to keep her company and that's why she thanks him, or the man she talks about is Sekiro and she's thankful beause we freed her.

actually her last word is "he's over there", i dont think that means Sekiro, but she means the warrior. The only thing i can think of about her and the warrior is love must come from both side, other than that i cant think of anything else leads to his death. Lul. Why and how did he die.

[Chrysalis]

Originally posted by This is Hunk! From Alpha team.:

Originally posted by Chrysalis:

Maybe she thinks that lord Sakuza sent this man to keep her company and that's why she thanks him, or the man she talks about is Sekiro and she's thankful beause we freed her.

actually her last word is "he's over there", i dont think that means Sekiro, but she means the warrior. The only thing i can think of about her and the warrior is love must come from both side, other than that i cant think of anything else leads to his death. Lul. Why and how did he die.

Maybe he tripped and fell in his own sword?

[HoneyDrake]

Originally posted by This is Hunk! From Alpha team.:

Why and how did he die.

Well, maybe he got poisoned by something/got badly wounded? More about why it could be important, later on.


O'Rin is undead, an ghost of resentment from what I can see (Check Jinza's Jizo Statue you get from finishing the "quest" (and don't send him to the sewers) related to that Warrior sitting near the idol).

She and Jinzaemon Kumano (the Warrior you meet multiply times and give you that Jinza Jizo Statue) seem to have an familial connection.

What else do we know about her? If you read a few item descriptions, some of them tell you about an special connection between Okami and them being weak to Poison, meaning that she could be one or is an descendant of an Okami.


The reason why I think that Kumano was poisoned? He could be blood related to O'Rin, maybe even her Son, which means that O'Rin didn't even was able to figure out that her kid survived (while the father died) till she was freed of her resentment (maybe poisoned to death because she was in an relationship with someone who she was not allowed to be? "Her being a spy/kunoichi" is the best looking theory though).

Kumano, who was not able to see her, because she was not a living being and he was alive, was about to die (due poison, my quess, as Mibu Villages River is poisoned to begin with and him most likely being an descendant of an Okami being weak to poison) and only then realized who she was.


That's my personal theory about those 2 NPC's story.

[Neoslevia]

Wow, some interesting stuff here guys. Much appreciated for sharing :)