NG+ is a joke...

[N.KagnitO)))]

....if you do any ending other than the short one and kill/loot everything you can in NG. I'm sorry but I just felt like posting a little rant, at least so that new players can see this.

Basically, having done everything there is to do (outside of some hard achievements), I have: endless money, endless resources, access to many key items that I probably shouldn't have, and I kill every boss on the first try if I don't derp out and fail a deflect.

FROM's solution is to handicap ourselves with the Bell Demon and Kuro's Charm. You can handicap yourself in any game, even without offical dev approval. I wanted something with more substance, like new red phantom enemies in Dark Souls 2 NG+.

I guess the only real option to get the hardest ending (which I didn't do the first time around), without making the game feel like a chore, is to start a new game.

Since you've gotten this far into my rant, do you guys have any ideas on how to improve NG+?

[𝕊𝕠𝕡𝕙𝕚𝕒]

Originally posted by N.KagnitO))):

....if you do any ending other than the short one and kill/loot everything you can in NG. I'm sorry but I just felt like posting a little rant, at least so that new players can see this.

Basically, having done everything there is to do (outside of some hard achievements), I have: endless money, endless resources, access to many key items that I probably shouldn't have, and I kill every boss on the first try if I don't derp out and fail a deflect.

FROM's solution is to handicap ourselves with the Bell Demon and Kuro's Charm. You can handicap yourself in any game, even without offical dev approval. I wanted something with more substance, like new red phantom enemies in Dark Souls 2 NG+.

I guess the only real option to get the hardest ending (which I didn't do the first time around), without making the game feel like a chore, is to start a new game.

Since you've gotten this far into my rant, do you guys have any ideas on how to improve NG+?

dont use healing
do not parry
dont try to use any prosthetics
i think that is enough improvement

[SmallGespenst]

aside from DS2 every souslbourne has done NG+ through straight number inflation, it's a shame, but there isn't really any hope left for FROM to work out how to make it interesting.
Especially since most people (correctly) view NG+ as a novelty for completionists and people who finished the game but aren't bored of it yet.

[Chrysalis]

I think NG+ is good they way it is, but it also seems to me that they could've improved it in multiple ways.

First it would be great if they would add new stronger enemies to the game in NG+, maybe even a new boss.
Another idea would be to be able to unlock things that you can only get in NG+. Maybe a special powerful sword technique or a prothestic.

Again, even without this stuff, NG+ is good the way it is in my opinion. I like to be that powerful after all the hardship I went through to get that strong. Besides, even if you are so mighty in NG+, you are still not overpowered and enemies can still be a challenge.

[Darthzz]

I've had ideas where in NG+ you'd start encountering "Purple Phantoms" similar to the false corrupted monk and that one fake headless in fountainhead palace that were basically miniboss versions of enemies that aren't already minibosses, and they'd possibly drop something only purple phantoms can drop, like some sort of cosmetics. I demand fashionkiro to be canon!

I've also had an idea where in NG+ you'd get a third charm that didn't necessarily increase enemy attack power and such, but rather, was a spirit that would relentlessly pursue you in levels trying to kill you, and in bossrooms, would possess the boss and give them an additional phase with new attacks related to said spirit. This spirit will spawn being summoned through the ground when you walk a decent distance from an idol. You either stop him from pursuing you by activating the charm again, or you face him 1v1 at the end of the NG+ cycle as his own individual boss for an additional reward.

[Darthzz]

Originally posted by Chrysalis:

I think NG+ is good they way it is, but it also seems to me that they could've improved it in multiple ways.

First it would be great if they would add new stronger enemies to the game in NG+, maybe even a new boss.
Another idea would be to be able to unlock things that you can only get in NG+. Maybe a special powerful sword technique or a prothestic.

Again, even without this stuff, NG+ is good the way it is in my opinion. I like to be that powerful after all the hardship I went through to get that strong. Besides, even if you are so mighty in NG+, you are still not overpowered and enemies can still be a challenge.

Honestly, the way NG+ is treated in sekiro seems like they merely intended it more as the "go back and do things you missed" type of NG+, but the two hardmodes were added kind of as a filler for those they knew would feel it was much too easy. I don't see it as much, but it's something.

[more]

I think the main problem is that the difficulty of this game lies mainly in learning attack patterns of the enemies. Once you learn to parry them in NG it's pretty hard to design a truly more challenging mode

[Artek [General]]

Eh, Dark Souls NG+ were not much better (minus DS2, which is the weird sheep of the flock - in both bad and good meanings... but mostly bad).

Yes, DS had weapon variety so you could challenge yourself to, lets say, a rapier playthrough or UGS playthrough, yadi yada.
Sekiro is about skill only and not the gear. Hence why kuro's charm exists: cheap damage through bad deflects is a game changer. You can also try prosthetic playthrough: shurikens only, spear only, mist raven only, yadi yada (same for combat arts).

I'm currently on NG+6, with kuro's charm given away and bell demon present and i also intentionally do not level up my attack power. The game got a lot ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ harder and a result more fun too. For comparison: in my previous NG+5 playthrough i roled over major bosses. A good exaple would be Corrupted Monk, who in 2nd phase only did her phantom rush only once or twice. Yet in this challenge-playthrough she did it like 3 times. Which means the bossfight was prolonged by a good 30% or more. Same case for all others bosses.

It was quiet refreshing to feel the challenge again.

[Artek [General]]

Originally posted by Pvt. Public:

I think the main problem is that the difficulty of this game lies mainly in learning attack patterns of the enemies. Once you learn to parry them in NG it's pretty hard to design a truly more challenging mode

Also this. Sure, FromSoft could give enemies some unique special attacks that only appear in NG+, but they've never done that before, not to mention that it would be basically a waste of resources considering that most people do not go for NG+.
Especially in Sekiro, where NG+ is the least appealing out of all FromSoft games.

[N.KagnitO)))]

I think the endless resources is what kills it for me. What do I care if I lost all my current spirit emblems? I got 600 more in storage and infinite money to buy as much as I want, so I can cheese any enemy with cheap prosthetic attacks.

I think NG+ should not give you more stuff, rather less and less. I'm fine with getting more XP to get those cool skills I missed, but being the richest mass murderer this side of the Nippon breaks every last bit of immersion I have left.

In retrospect, the souls currency is really smart. Level up or buy resources, choose wisely. Here it's the standard gold coins of every RPG, which is to be expected for the setting, but it's also a huge negative when money is no longer an issue.

[Abysswalker]

Originally posted by Artek General:

Originally posted by Pvt. Public:

I think the main problem is that the difficulty of this game lies mainly in learning attack patterns of the enemies. Once you learn to parry them in NG it's pretty hard to design a truly more challenging mode

Also this. Sure, FromSoft could give enemies some unique special attacks that only appear in NG+, but they've never done that before

Actually they have. In Dark Souls 2. I wonder why they never did another NG+ mode like DS2 had. Its by far the best out of all the soulsborne games.

[Artek [General]]

Originally posted by Abysswalker:

Originally posted by Artek General:

Also this. Sure, FromSoft could give enemies some unique special attacks that only appear in NG+, but they've never done that before

Actually they have. In Dark Souls 2. I wonder why they never did another NG+ mode like DS2 had. Its by far the best out of all the soulsborne games.

In NG+ of DS2 they've done bonus enemies in the form of shades. That's not exactly new attacks, but it could spice things up.

Interestingly enough, we have these very same shades in Sekiro too, but instead of spawning on NG+ (or without kuro's charm) they simmply appeat during evening (which is late game). And what's fascinating is that you can actually miss them.

For example, there are a whole bunch of ghost-nightjars in Mibu Village. 4 (2+2) protect the entrance and exit of Fog Forest, then there's a bunch of them in the village itself. Then there's the samurai protecting the bridge.

I also know 3 samurai ghosts at Sunken Valley, as well as couple of nightjar shades.
And who knows how many enemies i simply didn't see. For example i'm pretty sure i've nevern been to Senpou Temple during the evening, so who knows what lives in there during the night.

All i'm saying is: they could bring even more of those shades. Maybe make the night a permanent state of the game.

[Darthzz]

Originally posted by Artek General:

Originally posted by Abysswalker:

Actually they have. In Dark Souls 2. I wonder why they never did another NG+ mode like DS2 had. Its by far the best out of all the soulsborne games.

In NG+ of DS2 they've done bonus enemies in the form of shades. That's not exactly new attacks, but it could spice things up.

Interestingly enough, we have these very same shades in Sekiro too, but instead of spawning on NG+ (or without kuro's charm) they simmply appeat during evening (which is late game). And what's fascinating is that you can actually miss them.

For example, there are a whole bunch of ghost-nightjars in Mibu Village. 4 (2+2) protect the entrance and exit of Fog Forest, then there's a bunch of them in the village itself. Then there's the samurai protecting the bridge.

I also know 3 samurai ghosts at Sunken Valley, as well as couple of nightjar shades.
And who knows how many enemies i simply didn't see. For example i'm pretty sure i've nevern been to Senpou Temple during the evening, so who knows what lives in there during the night.

All i'm saying is: they could bring even more of those shades. Maybe make the night a permanent state of the game.

I feel permanent night could get really old aesthetically, but I like the idea of more things like the shades sprouting out. Maybe as you get closer to them, they make it appear dark as if it's night, but when away from them, everything seems normal. And then maybe when it's actually night, you'd see tougher versions of them, maybe even as minibosses, or mini-minibosses.

[Deformerad Dallarydsbo]

Agreed, there is no insentive to do NG+, I made sure to explore everything before jumping into NG+ eager to see what was different, apparently nothing, and with the zero weapon / build variety there is no reason to replay as in previous titles

[Darthzz]

Originally posted by Mothberg Goldblat:

Agreed, there is no insentive to do NG+, I made sure to explore everything before jumping into NG+ eager to see what was different, apparently nothing, and with the zero weapon / build variety there is no reason to replay as in previous titles

I feel there is incentive to do NG+ if you decide you'll, say, do challenges or only go for the other endings in NG+ cycles, but if you aren't into that kind of thing, of course it won't hold up. Even then, no matter what you do, you will reach your limit of how much you'll want to replay faster than you would with soulsborne games, unless you're a speedrunner I guess. It's sad because sekiro does so much right with what I wanted out of these types of games and yet its worst aspect is this lack of incentive IMO.

[OCTDUMPUS]

NG+ to me is just a playground for prosthetics, combat arts and mods