Have they nerfed a single damn boss since release? (big spoilers)

[Kyrth]

so i finished my first play-through of Sekuckro a few months ago, and got the Kuck ending. you know the one, where you take all of the choices & precautions to save Kuro & break the cycle, and therefore slaughter him in cold blood, and live the rest of your life as a miserable self-loathing hermit. because that was a rewarding conclusion to the story, wasn't it.

Came back to see if the game got any better and the corrupted monk still misses her low-sweeps. killed most bosses in one try thanks to the sadistic muscle-memory CBT i suffered through during my first run. Until i got to Owl.

Jesus Christ why does anyone enjoy this?

his fast speed & quick posture recovery, paired with his unrelenting aggression & next to non-existent openings, makes this boss entirely impossible to defeat first time w/o painful patience. learning his pattern's rhythm is impossible in one attempt, as you will be guard-broken unto death. meanwhile his stagger/heavy=execution gimmick will quickly make work of the aggressive (fun) play-style. this forces you to adopt the 'minefield mentality' which is the epitomy of ♥♥♥♥♥♥ ways to approach a video-game. "i'll just throw myself at the situation in randomly different ways until i find one that doesn't get me killed instantly"

So after a solid 4 tries i sat back and i thought, "if i complain or point this out, the hard=good mob will dribble all over my post until it drowns in insecurities & egotism." since that's what happens to people that criticise the perfect franchise without fresh points.

but i have a funky-fresh backup MCpoint for you. patches.

See if Sekiro is perfectly balanced the way it is (which it isn't) then like with all intricate games, it took a lot of tweaks and patches to get there. So where are they? where are the buffs & nerfs that justify the 'fair but hard' review every single soy-suckling sissy-boy seems to revel in giving?

[Kyrth]

Akagami eredeti hozzászólása:

The first time I complete the game I thought the same as you. But the second playthrough... I just kill owl and father so easy, he has a lot of openings if you know how to fight him.

He has a lot of health and could kill you if you miss but whaever.

IMO hardest enemy was the corrupted monk and she is not so hard.

what i'm talking for is the general experience. i'm not trying to disregard your own experience. but i do feel people're missing the point, and would use your post as an example.

Chained ogre (one-trick pony that can be easily killed after roughly 2 deaths on first run.)

Corrupted Monk ( three Phases that didn't need to be dragged out over 3 health bars)

Sword-Saint Ishiin (same issue as corrupted monk, only now it's 4 bars.)

Headless Ape (will insta-kill first-timers with aoe terror scream)

Headless. (attempting to face them guarentees death, and the means of killing them is not aquired until late game.)

Owl (Requires >mastery< of timing & unlearning of most muscle memory to defeat without cheese, which can require irl days of learning to do. many combat-arts cannot be used, generally becoming a linear gameplay experience.)

I think these overly difficult/tedious bosses generally un-immerse & derail the experience. if you work full weeks, or are in full-time education; have a particularily active social circle or generally have little time for gaming, the sheer amount of time it takes to learn a few of these specific bosses in contrast to others is just to steep.

Nobody looks back at the Chained ogre and thinks "huh, that sure was a good boss. it really did test me for all that i've learned so far." or "Huh, i really learned something from that fight."
cause in the end, the fight boils down to sprinting in & out of range, to bait his grabs & get 2 hits in before repeating. the most used method of disposal doesn't even demand you interact with the boss's primary mechanic.

Now i'm not saying the game should be easy, but there's a limit to how much time and dedication a game should demand of somebody. if this were a multiplayer game, a competitive game or something of the like, then it would make sense. but they otherwise have no reason to be so tedious.

especially so, when there are hypothetically so many potential ways to approach a boss, that just get shut-down by gimmick mechanics (Ogre) or borderline unpunisheable hyper-aggression (Owl)

Whether you learn to beat these kinds of bosses in the end doesn't matter, because the primary feature of their difficulty wasn't a test of skill as much as patience or temperment.

and i don't think that was intended on Fromsoftware's part, or at least i hope not. because that's objectively bad game design.

killing a player because "haha you tried to attack a late-game boss with a stat-check mechanic that you will auto-fail" into the Ashina Outskirts (first level) isn't fun for the player. it doesn't teach them as much as it punishes them for trying to learn. and that's just the sort of thing a dev's going to want to patch out.

it isn't "hard but fair" it just isn't.

[Hyperion]

Catatonic_Analytic eredeti hozzászólása:

Akagami eredeti hozzászólása:

The first time I complete the game I thought the same as you. But the second playthrough... I just kill owl and father so easy, he has a lot of openings if you know how to fight him.

He has a lot of health and could kill you if you miss but whaever.

IMO hardest enemy was the corrupted monk and she is not so hard.

what i'm talking for is the general experience. i'm not trying to disregard your own experience however.

Chained ogre (one-trick pony that can be easily killed after roughly 2 deaths on first time.)

Corrupted Monk ( three Phases don't need to be dragged out over 3 health bars)

Sword-Saint Ishiin (same issue as corrupted monk, only now it's 4 bars.)

Headless Ape (will insta-kill first-timers with aoe terror scream)

Headless. (attempting to face them guarentees death, and the means of killing them is not aquired until late game.)

Owl (Requires >mastery< of timing & unlearning of most muscle memory to defeat without cheese, which can require irl days of learning to do. many combat-arts cannot be used, generally becoming a linear gameplay experience.)

I think these overly difficult/tedious bosses generally un-immerse & derail the experience. if you work full weeks, or are in full-time education; have a particularily active social circle or generally have little time for gaming, the sheer amount of time it takes to learn these bosses in contrast to others is just to steep.

Nobody looks back at the Chained ogre and thinks "huh, that sure was a good boss. it really did test me for all that i've learned so far." or "Huh, i really learned something from that fight."
cause in the end, the fight boils down to sprinting in & out of range, to bait his grabs & get 2 hits in before repeating. the most use method of disposal doesn't even demand you interact with the boss's primary mechanic.

Now i'm not saying the game should be easy, but there's a limit to how much time and dedication a game should demand of somebody. if this were a multiplayer game, a competetive game or something of the like, then it would make sense. but they otherwise have no reason to be so tedious.

especially so, when there are hypothetically so many potential ways to approach a boss, that just get shut-down by gimmick mechanics (Ogre) or borderline unpunisheable hyper-aggression (Owl)

Whether you learn to beat these kinds of bosses in the end doesn't matter, because the primary feature of their difficulty wasn't a test of skill as much as patience or temperment.

and i don't think that was intended on Fromsoftware's part, or at least i hope not. because that's objectively bad game design.

killing a player because "haha you tried to attack a late-game boss with a stat-check mechanic that you will auto-fail" into the Ashina Outskirts (first level) isn't fun for the player. it doesn't teach them as much as it punishes them for trying to learn. and that's just the sort of thing a dev's going to want to patch out.

it isn't "hard but fair" it just isn't.

Thing is, you, me and everyone else who bought this game knew exactly what they were signing up for, be it a tedious grind on a boss or a game of patience and baiting out a specific attack.

Now I don't think anyone walked into Sekiro with a serious mind and expected to waltz through entire levels and bosses in mere minutes on their first try like a Mario or Sonic level.

That being said:
- The Chained Ogre is objectively not a good early game boss - I agree with you there. The whole premise of Sekiro is built around the posture meter and the Ogre makes that completely irrelevant. However, did you know that the biggest weakness of the Ogre is a circle? If you keep walking around the Ogre in a very small radius, none of his grab attacks can reach you. I can provide video evidence if need be.

- Corrupted Monk is effectively a 2 phase bossfight. Second phase can be instantly deathblowed although I will admit that this technique requires prior knowledge. Think of this what you will.

- Headless and other Terror based (mini)bosses are examples of not so good game design - I will once again agree with you there. Any insta-kill mechanic in a game (especially as punishing as this one) is cheap.

- Sword Saint is a testament to all that you've learnt along the way so naturally it will be very, very difficult. The only BS element here is his semi-auto pistol (Did he pull that from where the Sun don't shine?!).

- Owl is a boss where using most Prosthetics, Combat Arts and even items comes at a detriment to you. There's a reason why this is Miyazaki's favourite boss - Owl is very cunning and sly. Miyazaki is as quoted as saying, " they use really dirty tricks, they’re real devious, real underhanded techniques. Hopefully, you’ll know that one when you see it. " ( Source [www.gameinformer.com]). Owl's dirty fighting style is intended and from your reaction to this bossfight, I'd say FromSoft has done a pretty damn good job of getting that point across.

Owl isn't "fair" and that's the fundamental concept this whole bossfight revolves around; being as dirty and deceptive as possible.

[Kyrth]

Hyperion eredeti hozzászólása:

Thing is, you, me and everyone else who bought this game knew exactly what they were signing up for, be it a tedious grind on a boss or a game of patience and baiting out a specific attack.

Now I don't think anyone walked into Sekiro with a serious mind and expected to waltz through entire levels and bosses in mere minutes on their first try like a Mario or Sonic level.

That being said:
- The Chained Ogre is objectively not a good early game boss - I agree with you there. The whole premise of Sekiro is built around the posture meter and the Ogre makes that completely irrelevant. However, did you know that the biggest weakness of the Ogre is a circle? If you keep walking around the Ogre in a very small radius, none of his grab attacks can reach you. I can provide video evidence if need be.

- Corrupted Monk is effectively a 2 phase bossfight. Second phase can be instantly deathblowed although I will admit that this technique requires prior knowledge. Think of this what you will.

- Headless and other Terror based (mini)bosses are examples of not so good game design - I will once again agree with you there. Any insta-kill mechanic in a game (especially as punishing as this one) is cheap.

- Sword Saint is a testament to all that you've learnt along the way so naturally it will be very, very difficult. The only BS element here is his semi-auto pistol (Did he pull that from where the Sun don't shine?!).

- Owl is a boss where using most Prosthetics, Combat Arts and even items comes at a detriment to you. There's a reason why this is Miyazaki's favourite boss - Owl is very cunning and sly. Miyazaki is as quoted as saying, " they use really dirty tricks, they’re real devious, real underhanded techniques. Hopefully, you’ll know that one when you see it. " ( Source [www.gameinformer.com]). Owl's dirty fighting style is intended and from your reaction to this bossfight, I'd say FromSoft has done a pretty damn good job of getting that point across.

Owl isn't "fair" and that's the fundamental concept this whole bossfight revolves around; being as dirty and deceptive as possible.

(pardon the phrasing)
You agree with most of what i say, then make excuses for and quote in-objective developer reasoning for what're objectively flaws.

The majority of people Did. Not. buy Sekiro with the intention of having their temper & patience tested in the ways i've previously described. Most Souls fans bought the game for a "fair but hard" challenge, expecting Souls. but this game did not deliver that experience. Objectively. Nobody expects a game designed by Miyasaki to be as easy as "sonic the hedgehog" either.

The majority of the consumer-market bought Sekiro because of advertising & a promise of a high-quality game, made by a respected company. And they sure got that, but the game itself is not perfect. and after a fair bit of thinking, i believe the game can be objectively improved & made more enjoyable by tackling the flaws i've identified in these specific bosses.

And the fact that Miyazaki himself stated that he thinks a boss-fight is good because it's unfair, is honestly quite depressing. If he thinks that the community responds well to bosses like that, and believes implimenting more bosses like Owl into his games in the future will improve them. Then this does not bode well for the state of Elden Ring. (a game i sincerely wish to see become the pinnacle of everything he has learned as an industry-standard-setting developer.)

And i don't mean to aggress but the reasons you give for the state of Owl & Ishiin don't actually conflict or answer the points i've made about them. In Ishiin's case, i wholeheartedly agree that he should be a test of all of your skills. but it shouldn't take you 15 minutes to kill him, even when you're doing everything perfectly (with posture-weakening lazuli-fireworks i might add)

[Hyperion]

Catatonic_Analytic eredeti hozzászólása:

Hyperion eredeti hozzászólása:

Thing is, you, me and everyone else who bought this game knew exactly what they were signing up for, be it a tedious grind on a boss or a game of patience and baiting out a specific attack.

Now I don't think anyone walked into Sekiro with a serious mind and expected to waltz through entire levels and bosses in mere minutes on their first try like a Mario or Sonic level.

That being said:
- The Chained Ogre is objectively not a good early game boss - I agree with you there. The whole premise of Sekiro is built around the posture meter and the Ogre makes that completely irrelevant. However, did you know that the biggest weakness of the Ogre is a circle? If you keep walking around the Ogre in a very small radius, none of his grab attacks can reach you. I can provide video evidence if need be.

- Corrupted Monk is effectively a 2 phase bossfight. Second phase can be instantly deathblowed although I will admit that this technique requires prior knowledge. Think of this what you will.

- Headless and other Terror based (mini)bosses are examples of not so good game design - I will once again agree with you there. Any insta-kill mechanic in a game (especially as punishing as this one) is cheap.

- Sword Saint is a testament to all that you've learnt along the way so naturally it will be very, very difficult. The only BS element here is his semi-auto pistol (Did he pull that from where the Sun don't shine?!).

- Owl is a boss where using most Prosthetics, Combat Arts and even items comes at a detriment to you. There's a reason why this is Miyazaki's favourite boss - Owl is very cunning and sly. Miyazaki is as quoted as saying, " they use really dirty tricks, they’re real devious, real underhanded techniques. Hopefully, you’ll know that one when you see it. " ( Source [www.gameinformer.com]). Owl's dirty fighting style is intended and from your reaction to this bossfight, I'd say FromSoft has done a pretty damn good job of getting that point across.

Owl isn't "fair" and that's the fundamental concept this whole bossfight revolves around; being as dirty and deceptive as possible.

(pardon the phrasing)
You agree with most of what i say, then make excuses for and quote in-objective developer reasoning for what're objectively flaws.

The majority of people Did. Not. buy Sekiro with the intention of having their temper & patience tested in the ways i've previously described. Most Souls fans bought the game for a "fair but hard" challenge, expecting Souls. but this game did not deliver that experience. Objectively. Nobody expects a game designed by Miyasaki to be as easy as "sonic the hedgehog" either.

The majority of the consumer-market bought Sekiro because of advertising & a promise of a high-quality game, made by a respected company. And they sure got that, but the game itself is not perfect. and after a fair bit of thinking, i believe the game can be objectively improved & made more enjoyable by tackling the flaws i've identified in these specific bosses.

And the fact that Miyazaki himself stated that he thinks a boss-fight is good because it's unfair, is honestly quite depressing. If he thinks that the community responds well to bosses like that, and believes implimenting more bosses like Owl into his games in the future will improve them. Then this does not bode well for the state of Elden Ring. (a game i sincerely wish to see become the pinnacle of everything he has learned as an industry-standard-setting developer.)

And i don't mean to aggress but the reasons you give for the state of Owl & Ishiin don't actually conflict or answer the points i've made about them. In Ishiin's case, i wholeheartedly agree that he should be a test of all of your skills. but it shouldn't take you 15 minutes to kill him, even when you're doing everything perfectly (with posture-weakening lazuli-fireworks i might add)

No it isn't perfect, you're right. One of the main gripes I have with this game is that way too many bosses and minibosses are reused, making unique encounters all the more rarer.

- The Chained Ogre appears 3 times (4 times if you count the Great Carp Attendant).
- Headless appears 4 times, Shichimen Warrior 3 times.
- Lone Shadows 4 times.
- Seven Ashina Spears 2 times.
and etc you get the idea.

Now the "fair but hard" part is a topic up for legitimate debate. When you've mastered the game completely, the game becomes more than fair. It actually becomes "too fair" and the only way to make it even remotely challenging is to lose the Kuro Charm. If you play perfectly (with Kuro's Charm on), none of the bosses should realistically take over 7 or 8 minutes tops, even Isshin. Just pop a Yashariku's Sugar + Divine Confetti and you'll melt through any boss within 2 or so minutes max.

Of course in the context of a casual first playthrough, bossfights can take up to 15 minutes like Isshin but honestly that shouldn't be much of a surprise considering he's the final boss in already hard game.

No it isn't fun fighting and dying to the same boss over and over again with runs taking 5-10 minutes each but most of the time it really isn't because the game is "unfair" or deliberately trying to f**k with you. I've watched a lot of people's first playthroughs on YouTube and the main mistake that every, single one of them makes, without exception, is that they're playing way too passively. This isn't to say that they're all trash or noobs or anything but it simply indicates that they have a decent amount of learning to do before the game "clicks". This is the main reason why bossfights for some can take an absurdly long time to overcome.

Owl is hyper-aggressive? But what if I told you that you can counter and completely negate his hyper-aggressive pattern by playing even more aggressively? In the case of Owl specifically, if you turn your aggression to a maximum, he barely will even be able to attack you at all, turning a long, continuous drag of a bossfight into a quick and clean performance.

Isshin offers one of the best pieces of advice you'll ever get in this game: Hesitation is defeat. [/b]

But hey if you still believe the game is unreasonable and unfair at times, that's a completely valid and fair opinion.

[Kyrth]

Hyperion eredeti hozzászólása:

No it isn't perfect, you're right. One of the main gripes I have with this game is that way too many bosses and minibosses are reused, making unique encounters all the more rarer.

- The Chained Ogre appears 3 times (4 times if you count the Great Carp Attendant).
- Headless appears 4 times, Shichimen Warrior 3 times.
- Lone Shadows 4 times.
- Seven Ashina Spears 2 times.
and etc you get the idea.

Now the "fair but hard" part is a topic up for legitimate debate. When you've mastered the game completely, the game becomes more than fair. It actually becomes "too fair" and the only way to make it even remotely challenging is to lose the Kuro Charm. If you play perfectly (with Kuro's Charm on), none of the bosses should realistically take over 7 or 8 minutes tops, even Isshin. Just pop a Yashariku's Sugar + Divine Confetti and you'll melt through any boss within 2 or so minutes max.

Of course in the context of a casual first playthrough, bossfights can take up to 15 minutes like Isshin but honestly that shouldn't be much of a surprise considering he's the final boss in already hard game.

No it isn't fun fighting and dying to the same boss over and over again with runs taking 5-10 minutes each but most of the time it really isn't because the game is "unfair" or deliberately trying to f**k with you. I've watched a lot of people's first playthroughs on YouTube and the main mistake that every, single one of them makes, without exception, is that they're playing way too passively. This isn't to say that they're all trash or noobs or anything but it simply indicates that they have a decent amount of learning to do before the game "clicks". This is the main reason why bossfights for some can take an absurdly long time to overcome.

Owl is hyper-aggressive? But what if I told you that you can counter and completely negate his hyper-aggressive pattern by playing even more aggressively? In the case of Owl specifically, if you turn your aggression to a maximum, he barely will even be able to attack you at all, turning a long, continuous drag of a bossfight into a quick and clean performance.

Isshin offers one of the best pieces of advice you'll ever get in this game: Hesitation is defeat. [/b]

But hey if you still believe the game is unreasonable and unfair at times, that's a completely valid and fair opinion. [/quote]

yisss. well structured, respectful & polite. well punctuated & on-topic. love this.

Okay so, i will again mention that i was arguing for the sake of the first playthrough. But i'd really like to get into this.
I wholeheartedly agree on your points regarding method with Owl. Passivity is a very poor trait to have in his fight, BUT. A staple method of learning bosses throughout the game, is to dedicate a period of time to playing purely defensively in order to best learn the boss's rhythm & tricks.

The majority of bosses can even be indefinetely resisted for as long as the player properly responds to their red-sings & pulls off roughly 30% of their parry attempts (with fails becoming hypothetical blocks.) using the openings their parries create to quickly replenish posture via static-guarding.

Owl is the only non-gimmick boss that doesn't let the player do this. unless you are a literal parry god (which on a first-playthrough you are unlikely to be), Owl will break your posture & cause *massive* damage no matter how well your defensive game is.

So with this established, a first-time player will either begin the fight by-

A. Going in blind & aggressive.

or

B. Turtling up & trying to learn the enemy.

Now, this fight already starts with a 50/50 chance of the player dying, based on their approach alone. And you could say that after they realise there's no reprise for posture-healing with Owl, that they switch it up & go ham.

But then the first-timer is forcing themselves to potentially trade blows with an enemy whose moveset is riddled with counter-attacks & hyper-armour. Not to mention the fact that if the player (even with all of the prayerbeads available and acquired at this point) so much as dares to throw a heavy attack, they will be reduced to 5-10%HP, which would also equal death if they had received a single blow before/after this. + We then have to consider that there's no way for the player to know Owl was capable of this punish before getting hit by it.

And the worst part is that this hypothetical scenario i just described is basically the entire learning process with this boss. i know I've already said it in my OP, but you have to throw yourself at him like a lemming in order to beat him. And that just sucks the fun out of it so hard.

I'm not saying your approach is wrong, because it is technically the correct way to beat him, but the problem is that besides the few methods of aforementioned cheese, it is the only way to beat him. every other approach is wrong. there is no room for playing.

To add salt to the wound, his intro cinematic, taunts, and death-quote will all be replayed on every attempt. So you're not only fighting a trial & error boss, but you're fighting a trial & error boss that mocks you every time you begin the fight, inevitably die, and die after resurection.

So, say we didn't actually change the fight. Say weakening his posture, or rewriting him so that he'll occasionally give the player a little breathing-space to learn & refocus was out of the question. Ok. I have an alternative to this, and i think most people would happily see it applied to the other bosses that're like this. Critic or Fan.

How about, after you properly die-die to a cinematic/dialogue heavy boss, such as Ishiin, Genichiro, Butterfly or Owl. -Whose boss-rooms are basically right next to their respective checkpoints anyway- you are given the choice to restart the fight (from scratch, like you just re-entered the room) without any cinematics or dialogue that you have not already sat-through.

This way, if these bosses really are supposed kill you first, then test you later. Then the player won't have to waste precious time loading & walking, reading and talking. They can just get back to the game, without having to brood over their failures.

[Kyrth]

Idk what's up with the quotation in the above post, tried to fix it but it just...

My response starts with "Yisss" though. sry.

[LightLance]

Catatonic_Analytic eredeti hozzászólása:

Owl is the only non-gimmick boss that doesn't let the player do this. unless you are a literal parry god (which on a first-playthrough you are unlikely to be), Owl will break your posture & cause *massive* damage no matter how well your defensive game is.

It is either a false statement or an error of ignorance. And that's why:
1. Owl Father has 4 oppenings for Ichimonji(or Double if you are good in Ichimonji timing), which of them are safe for Wolf health/posture. And there is another risky oppening after his Chasing Slice. if you did not know Ichimonji deals high posture damage and also recovers one's own posture with a strong forward step. It recovers posture much more faster then guarding stance even if you don’t hit the enemy. Since Owl's strikes are slower than, for example, Isshin, he will not be able to punish you even after a miss. Personally I think this fight is one of the best rewarded for applying Ichimonji and therefore one of the most elegant. If you have never seen the use of Ichimonji in a battle with Owl, you can watch this video
https://youtu.be/cxy9uYoiw-s
2. Because of his manner of constantly jumping, like in cats fight, breaking the distance, Wolf has enough time to regain his own posture. This makes the battle more passive and longer, but there is no need to chase the boss across the arena and get confused between the pillars. And this method is preferable if you do not like to run a lot and want to fight in a moderate rhythm face to face with the enemy. Imo, this is more in line with the style of the game.

Your claim of a long training in the proper battle with the boss only says that your idea of the core designe of this game does not at all coincide with how the developers conceived it. Therefore, this is not a bad game design, it just doesn’t suit you specifically.You don’t have enough time to learn how to overcome a difficult situation. At the same time, core-designe suggests that you should do this. And here, more than in other FS games, personal learning ability becomes important. Hard to learn easy to master.

[Just Aaron]

Wait. Are we taking about Owl 1 or Owl 2? I thought this topic was about Owl 1 but that video of Owl 2 is making me think I misunderstood this topic.

[LightLance]

Never mind. Owl 1 is easier than Owl 2, becouse he doesn't use firecrackers so often. This ability is the most dangerous in both battles. Everything written above is also true about Owl 1.

[Kyrth]

Just Aaron eredeti hozzászólása:

Wait. Are we taking about Owl 1 or Owl 2? I thought this topic was about Owl 1 but that video of Owl 2 is making me think I misunderstood this topic.

i'm focusing on 1, as it is a non-optional fight. i also didn't even know about the memory fight until like, 2 days ago lol.

[Kyrth]

LightLance eredeti hozzászólása:

Your claim of a long training in the proper battle with the boss only says that your idea of the core designe of this game does not at all coincide with how the developers conceived it. Therefore, this is not a bad game design, it just doesn’t suit you specifically.You don’t have enough time to learn how to overcome a difficult situation. At the same time, core-designe suggests that you should do this. And here, more than in other FS games, personal learning ability becomes important. Hard to learn easy to master.

... ?

[wilco64256]

On my first time through the game I beat Owl on my third try, and then my first or second try every time afterward. He's neither unfair or unbalanced, he's just the culmination of everything you're expected to have learned about the game mechanics up to that point. Not doing much posture damage? Then chip away at health first. And there are multiple ways to get him to leave himself wide open for easy shots to accomplish that. Just because you personally struggle with him doesn't mean everybody does.

[Kyrth]

wilco64256 eredeti hozzászólása:

On my first time through the game I beat Owl on my third try, and then my first or second try every time afterward. He's neither unfair or unbalanced, he's just the culmination of everything you're expected to have learned about the game mechanics up to that point. Not doing much posture damage? Then chip away at health first. And there are multiple ways to get him to leave himself wide open for easy shots to accomplish that. Just because you personally struggle with him doesn't mean everybody does.

and how is Owl's Heavy attack = 90%hp negation punish, in anyway a reflection of anything you've learned up until that point?

we use that phrase to describe Ishiin. that's what Ishiin is. not Owl. Owl is not a fair boss.

[Basilisk]

I played through the game blind in my first playthrough obviously. I chose to betray Kuro, expecting to be able to go to the Cloud district with my dad and meet Nazeem.

So after getting pissed that I denied myself 40% of the game, I came back a month later and did a different ending in Ng+. Owl (great shinobi) is pretty difficult on ng+ because he deals huge posture damage. Still, if you simply git gud you can overcome him.

[wilco64256]

Dodge or deflect his attacks. He’s quite easy to avoid, and anything you struggle to avoid can be deflected without much trouble. If your posture is getting too high then get away for a few seconds and hold up your sword to clear it.