Evolution disappointing, rendering Monsters useless

[KK_Me]

The Evolution mechanic in this game doesn't really appeal to me.
Before I tried it, I got really excited to get a better version of my favorite party members, but every time I evolved a Monster it lost some skills which were necessary for its role in my party. Instead of a power up I got a power down, which is not what I want to associate with such a promising mechanic.

Turning unique Monsters into completely different unique Monsters is a strange mechanic to me. Why not just have them be completely different Monsters in that case, without linking them through the evolve tag? For all the Monsters which already have a place in my party this mechanic is unnecessary. At most it's something I'd consider for Monsters which I don't use at all, like a skill/stat reroll.

While I appreciate the unique design of each Monster's skillset/stats and understand that the Devs would like all of them to have a niche where they're viable, Evolution felt really disappointing. Please change it, to where the Monsters at least don't lose their skills.

Thanks for the fun game!

[Sersch]

Hey,

Our vision with the evolutions was to make them not just strictly better versions of the pre-evolution monsters but make those monsters slightly different. So the non-evolved versions of those monsters would be viable still.

Your point is definitely valid and is the downside of this vision of ours.

[Conan The Librarian]

KK_Me-

I think the disconnect might be not only your expectations regarding evolution, but also your estimation of evolutions.

For expectations--this isn't Pokemon / Digimon where evolutions are merely powering up the monster. Instead, evolutions in Monster Sanctuary is just turning it into a different form. Yes, they lose some things, but they also gain things instead of it. Basically, it's a tradeoff. Magmapillar to Magmamoth is just a tradeoff between more defensive and more offensive. So yes, sometimes when evolving monsters, they will change roles -- that's the whole point of it.

Originally posted by KK_Me:

While I appreciate the unique design of each Monster's skillset/stats and understand that the Devs would like all of them to have a niche where they're viable, Evolution felt really disappointing. Please change it, to where the Monsters at least don't lose their skills.

This sounds like a bit of an exaggeration, as monsters don't lose all their skills, but as mentioned above, just trade out some skills for others, so yes, evolutions are "viable" to use.

[WhyNotZoidberg]

Originally posted by Conan The Librarian:

This sounds like a bit of an exaggeration, as monsters don't lose all their skills, but as mentioned above, just trade out some skills for others, so yes, evolutions are "viable" to use.

This. So far I still have to find a single monster that isn't "viable" in the closest definition of the word. Some combinations are more powerful than others, sure, but not a single monster is useless, and that is something I imagine must be really hard, given that there are quite a few monstertrainer games out there that do it badly.

[Yuggon]

Even Pokemon does not have a good balancing, and here we have a great one. Be thankful for that, i had the same feeling as you when i first saw the evolution mechanic, but now im ok with that, and i find it interesting. I mean, maybe they can add more evolutions in the future and maybe some of them will be to my favorite monsters and that will make them fit even better in my team.

[Gortz]

Maybe if you could choose to keep a skill from the previous evolution this would make each evolution have certain variations even if they are the same monster

[KK_Me]

Thank you very much for your answers. I’ve thought a lot about what you all wrote.

Originally posted by Sersch:

Our vision with the evolutions was to make them not just strictly better versions of the pre-evolution monsters but make those monsters slightly different.

Originally posted by Conan The Librarian:

Basically, it's a tradeoff. Magmapillar to Magmamoth is just a tradeoff between more defensive and more offensive.

What I think you're saying, is that you want Evolution to be the device to explain similarities between different Monsters, but only some of them.

That's fair, but I feel like I’m getting mixed signals in game (and I don’t mean what you told me here is not communicated in game. An NPC literally says “Generally, an evolved Monster is stronger than before, but you may not like the changes!”).
The impression I got while playing, is that the evolution story you want to tell is that of growth and progression, but to keep the game balanced you had to introduce tradeoffs, which feel forced.

On the one hand we have the “growth” narrative:
-the visual representation of evolved Monsters seem older/stronger/more advanced to their pre-evolved counterpart, instead of just different
-stats are usually higher in evolved Monsters, which we associate with higher levels/better items
-the transition happens at a Tree (symbol for growth)
-you don’t meet evolved monsters early on
-as the difficulty increases you meet more evolved monsters than pre-evolution monsters
-you cannot access evolution early on

Then there’s the “trade” narrative:
-Monster keeps its visual identity
-Pre- and post evolution are both viable, just with different roles
-Some skills are retained

And I don’t know the game well enough to judge:
-If evolution is reversible and not portrayed as a downgrade (from Magmamoth back to Magmapillar)
-If elemental affinities change drastically or not (e.g. from Magmapillar to a “Frostpillar”)
-I forgot what kind and with what rarity evolved monster drop eggs


At the moment I just don’t see a consistent narrative. My (bold) suggestions would be to do one of the following:
A) Keep the system as is, but make all monsters related and if you have the knowhow and the items you can change any Monster into any other.
B) To enforce a “trade” narrative, adapt cosmetics to mechanics. Get away from the lateral ingame evolution depiction and move towards horizontal changes. Different breeds inhabit different biomes, which is completely fair. Use metamorphosis to switch between Monster breeds as you like.
C) A commitment to a “growth” narrative means a game mechanics overhaul. This would be a huge undertaking. The goal would be to make all final evolution stage Monster classes viable, but not the pre-evolution monsters themselves. Maybe unlock a skill tree section for every evolution instead of all 10 levels. I understand that this might be the furthest option from your initial vision.
or
D) Ditch the Evolution mechanic. It’s completely fine if there are only unique Monsters. Similarities between Monsters can be attributed to shared ancestry/niche.

Thanks again for listening, really enjoy the game.

[unrealph]

Evolution mechanic is fine.

[Blowfeld]

Just call "evolution" "mutation";

Problem in wrong expectations solved.

[Omenfall]

I don't think the Evolutionmechanic should be changed, this is still early access. We don't have much Monsters that even CAN evolve, so we should wait for more of them.

[Yuggon]

I do agree that the word "evolution" does not really fits in what the "evolutuion" here really is. I would strongly recommend just chaging that name to a word that will be a better representation of the mechanic. I would say the word "metamorphosis" would be the best one.

[itssirtou]

I mean the game literally tells you it's a sidegrade and 'you may not like what you get' or something to that effect. I'd agree its a misnomer, but the results are almost always better than the predecessor, just different.

My only problem with mutations is the limited-edition ones. Why can't I have both shifts of Nanka or SK!?

[Conan The Librarian]

Originally posted by itssirtou:

I mean the game literally tells you it's a sidegrade and 'you may not like what you get' or something to that effect. I'd agree its a misnomer, but the results are almost always better than the predecessor, just different.

My only problem with mutations is the limited-edition ones. Why can't I have both shifts of Nanka or SK!?

Note that as of the latest patch, the previously-limited evolution items are now available in Reward Box Level 2. You can therefore have multiple. This also applies to a few of the champions. See here for Reward Box Level 2 loot list https://ibb.co/6gBFcWM

[Omenfall]

Originally posted by itssirtou:

I mean the game literally tells you it's a sidegrade and 'you may not like what you get' or something to that effect. I'd agree its a misnomer, but the results are almost always better than the predecessor, just different.

My only problem with mutations is the limited-edition ones. Why can't I have both shifts of Nanka or SK!?

Just farm the unlimited Arena, i got tons of Evolutionitems from there. Ok it will take some time BUT it works.

[Sersch]

Originally posted by Yuggon:

I do agree that the word "evolution" does not really fits in what the "evolutuion" here really is. I would strongly recommend just chaging that name to a word that will be a better representation of the mechanic. I would say the word "metamorphosis" would be the best one.

Hm but this might only be because people are used to this term from the Pokemon games? Because by nature evolution actually does mean that something is changing.

[Omenfall]

Originally posted by Sersch:

Originally posted by Yuggon:

I do agree that the word "evolution" does not really fits in what the "evolutuion" here really is. I would strongly recommend just chaging that name to a word that will be a better representation of the mechanic. I would say the word "metamorphosis" would be the best one.

Hm but this might only be because people are used to this term from the Pokemon games? Because by nature evolution actually does mean that something is changing.

Evolution means, that you give a Trait that was worthy/needed for Survival to your next Generation. Would make more sense in terms of breeding or something but not for Monster changing their entire body. But at long last, i don't really care how it is named, since Pokemon did it wrong for more than 10 years now :P.