is there no strategy other than archer rush and snowballing?

[Endoskeleton_Jim]

i came for strategy and yet this game is severely lacking. the build orders are straightforward and linear and its either you out micro or you die

[KingKickAss]

You mean for something like an opening move and not all the things you can end up doing for the rest of the game?
-Drushing
-Tower rush
-Scout rush
-Knight rush/Fast castle

[Krosis Priest]

That's just multiplayer "strategy" for you, in pretty much every RTS I played. Play the flavour of the month "strategy" every time (or get destroyed trying to actually play the game properly), rinse and repeat until you get bored or next patch creates a new flavour of the month, jump on the new bandwagon, etc.

Play campaigns if you want real strategy, they really are pretty diverse and will often push you out of the comfort zone.

[Endoskeleton_Jim]

Originally posted by Krosis:

That's just multiplayer "strategy" for you, in pretty much every RTS I played. Play the flavour of the month "strategy" every time (or get destroyed trying to actually play the game properly), rinse and repeat until you get bored or next patch creates a new flavour of the month, jump on the new bandwagon, etc.

Play campaigns if you want real strategy, they really are pretty diverse and will often push you out of the comfort zone.

campaigns are boring because the ai is incredibly predictable and weak

[Kampfschwein Fjonda]

OP is right, it's archer balls and micro scouts all the time.
What you might try to prevent this is Persian douche, Berber vil war, Drush/Men at arms.

You will still lose dramatically to competent players, but at least you may have revenge on those one-trick-ponies with 2000 games played as Britons and 1000 as Mayan.

[FloosWorld]

Oddly enough most people across all Elo levels seem to open with Scouts, followed by ranges and MAA: https://www.aoepulse.com/home

As for campaigns... while they're cool, the AI can be baited and some triggers can be abused once you know how the scenario works, making some missions way easier than intended.
All it needs is you hitting one unit or one building of the enemy, then run away and have the entire enemy army follow you. Much strategy.
"La Noche Triste" from Montezuma is particular known to be beatable in under 5 minutes as you just have to run into Tenochtitlan and destroy the wonder with the Jaguar Warrior. ^^
In Vinlandsaga you can skip the entire attack of the American natives if you enter America before Eric the Red, establish the economy and then let Eric follow. Ornlu will also never spawn if you don't build the Blacksmith

[Flakstruk]

Are you confusing strategy with tactics

[Quintem]

Originally posted by Endoskeleton_Jim:

i came for strategy and yet this game is severely lacking. the build orders are straightforward and linear and its either you out micro or you die

And you would know this from just playing the game for 15 hours?

[Vonklyce]

Originally posted by Quintem:

Originally posted by Endoskeleton_Jim:

i came for strategy and yet this game is severely lacking. the build orders are straightforward and linear and its either you out micro or you die

And you would know this from just playing the game for 15 hours?

Is he wrong tho? it's not like he'll be getting new units to use like the ninja or flamethrower after reaching 500 or 1000 hours so he can play differently other than following the same archer/knight rush build order approved by 9 out of 10 streamers.

I think the "strategy" part is pretty much suited for campaigns only in which you are given several possibilities to try different approaches on your main objectives, many people back in the 90s played RTS games entirely for that purpose only.
MP at some point is just following the same old recipe and is mostly decided by those who has the fastest fingers, best hotkeys and the most expensive mouse/keyboard that a mortal can afford.

[DMg Halt]

Originally posted by Krosis:

That's just multiplayer "strategy" for you, in pretty much every RTS I played. Play the flavour of the month "strategy" every time (or get destroyed trying to actually play the game properly), rinse and repeat until you get bored or next patch creates a new flavour of the month, jump on the new bandwagon, etc.

Play campaigns if you want real strategy, they really are pretty diverse and will often push you out of the comfort zone.

Can you provide a few examples of how to play the game "properly"? I wasn't aware that there was a way the game was meant to be played.

[Moist Butt]

Originally posted by Vonklyce:

Originally posted by Quintem:

And you would know this from just playing the game for 15 hours?

Is he wrong tho? it's not like he'll be getting new units to use like the ninja or flamethrower after reaching 500 or 1000 hours so he can play differently other than following the same archer/knight rush build order approved by 9 out of 10 streamers.

I think the "strategy" part is pretty much suited for campaigns only in which you are given several possibilities to try different approaches on your main objectives, many people back in the 90s played RTS games entirely for that purpose only.
MP at some point is just following the same old recipe and is mostly decided by those who has the fastest fingers, best hotkeys and the most expensive mouse/keyboard that a mortal can afford.

tbf maps like arena and nomad does change things up. Much more common to see castle units in those settings. I will agree with u that aoe2 doesnt have much variety tho.

I think you are referring to the "skill" part of the game. Generally high apm is required for competitive rts. Similarly good aim (crosshair placement/tracking/etc) is required for fps.

[jonoliveira12]

If you think speed actually matters too much in AoE2, you are wrong. Some of the top players are actually VERY slow, compared to something like Starcraft, where speed truly is king.

Archer balls get deleted by Skirm balls, or Mangonels.

[FloosWorld]

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

If you think speed actually matters too much in AoE2, you are wrong. Some of the top players are actually VERY slow, compared to something like Starcraft, where speed truly is king.

Archer balls get deleted by Skirm balls, or Mangonels.

There's actually just one "slow" player, which is DauT.

But only if you have the upgrades, otherwise Archers can snipe Skirms.

[Vemonia]

- why do you mention archers who arent the most popular opening ?
- there are other strategies in the game than a rush, the game isnt lacking in the strategy department
- What do you mean with "the build orders straightforward" ? Are they too easy to follow ? If so it is not necessarily a bad thing, as you still have to choose which one you follow and make sure it suits your civilisation... This decision belongs more to tactics/strategy than you capability to follow the build order you chose, which is more of a "micro" thing that you seem to dislike...
- If someone has double your eAPM, you'll probably lose the game in aoe2 just like in any RTS. Because this is exactly what RTS games atr about: half speed, half planning.
- if you want a fair chance to win at a strategy game without being out-microed, then do not play RTS, try turn-based strategy games instead.

[FloosWorld]

Originally posted by Vemonia:

- If someone has double your eAPM, you'll probably lose the game in aoe2 just like in any RTS. Because this is exactly what RTS games atr about: half speed, half planning.

I'd say in AoE 2 it's 60 % decision making/planning and 40 % speed. You can compensate your lack of speed by making the right choices at the right time.

[Kasbfaäfad]

If you are not the biggest fan of feudal age archer and scouts action, simply do not play arabia, Arabia allows very different strategies starting from castle age. But there are many very distinct maps with a variety of strategies. Arabia vs. Arena vs. Black Forest vs. Nomad vs. Golden Pit: each of those 5 types feels like a completely different game. And you always find some arena-like maps (hideout, even oasis), bf-like (michi, amazon tunnel), arabia and nomad-like (steppe) in the map pool. Arena-like and BF-like maps are heavily evolving around big castle and imperial action with mostly large armies and a variety of units.

I personally play this game for later game action so I understand u getting bored by the same archer/scout rush micro stuff that often costs you the game in arabia.