How to deal with Persians at Imp?

[Okay]

So, I made a switch a few months ago to EW, I only played 4vs4 and mostly enjoy the late game so it fits me well.
I don't sweat the games much, I like staying low elo, I can play chill most of the time.

2 days ago I've got the itch to try Persians.
And well, winning became SO easy all of a sudden, and boring as well.

I mean all I need is strong eco, imp and spam elphents with some bows behind.
And thats it, just stream roll them into battle.
0 skill, 0 effort.

Now I'm aware I'm playing vs low elo players who probably don't know how to counter that.
But for real, is there a way to counter a Persians player with full boom and war elphents?
Or is it like Goth where they become almost unbeatble if you let them cook?

[Kasbfaäfad]

Originally posted by Okay:

So, I made a switch a few months ago to EW, I only played 4vs4 and mostly enjoy the late game so it fits me well.
I don't sweat the games much, I like staying low elo, I can play chill most of the time.

2 days ago I've got the itch to try Persians.
And well, winning became SO easy all of a sudden, and boring as well.

I mean all I need is strong eco, imp and spam elphents with some bows behind.
And thats it, just stream roll them into battle.
0 skill, 0 effort.

Now I'm aware I'm playing vs low elo players who probably don't know how to counter that.
But for real, is there a way to counter a Persians player with full boom and war elphents?
Or is it like Goth where they become almost unbeatble if you let them cook?

Halberds and Siege Onagers. Or if you micro a little, do monks.

[Quintem]

I play Persians for the fact that I can steam roll people on certain maps with war elephants.

The counter?

Don't be dumb? I'm not being flippant.

Every time I've gone mass war elephants (don't even make trash bows, that's my allies job) Is I've run over my enemies in most scenarios. Probably only lost a few times because I've had said allies not provide support. 1 vs 3 situation I had where archer player was making Plumes vs paladins. They do 2 damage to paladins. It's really not that great.

Every time I've won vs mass war elephants I've just swarmed them with ungodly amount halbs or used ranged cavalry if the option. If the civ also has good monks I mix those in as well 5 monks can convert 5 elephants. That's 3000 HP switch. It can swing battles because halbs can live a bit longer supporting their new friends or ranged units don't have to kite as much.

Also War Elephants require insane amount of food for consistent production. Gold of course but you need like 80+ farmers for steady supply. 30-40 villagers/trade carts for gold. You live on like 10-20 wood villagers.

The other option is the try and get into Persian players economy late game, take down those farmers.

The other thing is beating the Persian player before elephants (or Savar).

The other thing is Persians are very one note, they do have gunpowder which is nice but their best two units are cavalry. So you can almost always think camels, halbs or monks to counter.

[James3157]

Khitans are op right now especially on 1v1, but are a good counter for not only just Persians, but currently against most civs in general.

[Quintem]

Originally posted by James3157:

Khitans are op right now especially on 1v1, but are a good counter for not only just Persians, but currently against most civs in general.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/813780/discussions/0/597400564876238842/?ctp=3#c597401798036247569

Read my comment here and check the stats link. They don't have a weakness currently in 1 vs 1.

[Kasbfaäfad]

Originally posted by Quintem:

I play Persians for the fact that I can steam roll people on certain maps with war elephants.

The counter?

Don't be dumb? I'm not being flippant.

Every time I've gone mass war elephants (don't even make trash bows, that's my allies job) Is I've run over my enemies in most scenarios. Probably only lost a few times because I've had said allies not provide support. 1 vs 3 situation I had where archer player was making Plumes vs paladins. They do 2 damage to paladins. It's really not that great.

Every time I've won vs mass war elephants I've just swarmed them with ungodly amount halbs or used ranged cavalry if the option. If the civ also has good monks I mix those in as well 5 monks can convert 5 elephants. That's 3000 HP switch. It can swing battles because halbs can live a bit longer supporting their new friends or ranged units don't have to kite as much.

Also War Elephants require insane amount of food for consistent production. Gold of course but you need like 80+ farmers for steady supply. 30-40 villagers/trade carts for gold. You live on like 10-20 wood villagers.

The other option is the try and get into Persian players economy late game, take down those farmers.

The other thing is beating the Persian player before elephants (or Savar).

The other thing is Persians are very one note, they do have gunpowder which is nice but their best two units are cavalry. So you can almost always think camels, halbs or monks to counter.

I ve seen elephants go down to Sege Onagers and Halbs combos with the speed of light 11. They are hard countered by that like all elephant units.
Also mamelukes melt elephants when you have enough and hit and run.

[Quintem]

Originally posted by Kasbfaäfad:

I ve seen elephants go down to Sege Onagers and Halbs combos with the speed of light 11. They are hard countered by that like all elephant units.
Also mamelukes melt elephants when you have enough and hit and run.

Siege Onager can and will kill anything. Depending on the map, 1 vs 1 vs team. Persian player can add bombard cannons or hussar. Hussar make a good flood unit if your gold is a bit on the lower side for whatever reason and you need to build up reserves again.

In the back, I will build like 20 stables to just spam hussar. I have the farms for it. As my gold reserves drop and/or elephants get thinned Hussar can rush in, they can also get into economy once there is a breach.

I'm the kind of player that thinks about things in one two punch system. Punch one forces the enemy into a situation you desire or cripples them. Punch two is their to punish their response or end them.

Imagine a player go mass monk vs your war elephants. Then 40 hussars start flooding in. Even if they have halbs, that's not going to be a fun for time for them.

Now I'm giving Okay more ideas how to win with Persians 11.

[Okay]

Originally posted by Quintem:

Originally posted by Kasbfaäfad:

I ve seen elephants go down to Sege Onagers and Halbs combos with the speed of light 11. They are hard countered by that like all elephant units.
Also mamelukes melt elephants when you have enough and hit and run.

Siege Onager can and will kill anything. Depending on the map, 1 vs 1 vs team. Persian player can add bombard cannons or hussar. Hussar make a good flood unit if your gold is a bit on the lower side for whatever reason and you need to build up reserves again.

In the back, I will build like 20 stables to just spam hussar. I have the farms for it. As my gold reserves drop and/or elephants get thinned Hussar can rush in, they can also get into economy once there is a breach.

I'm the kind of player that thinks about things in one two punch system. Punch one forces the enemy into a situation you desire or cripples them. Punch two is their to punish their response or end them.

Imagine a player go mass monk vs your war elephants. Then 40 hussars start flooding in. Even if they have halbs, that's not going to be a fun for time for them.

Now I'm giving Okay more ideas how to win with Persians 11.

Hmm yeah I was reading it like a guide book lol since I was countered by monks today.
Its not a good comparison though, since I was playing 1vs2 and then 1vs3, so the 7-8 monks taking my elphents actually made a difference and the croswbows couldnt get them since the other guys had lots of army in the middle.

So yeah Hussar spam will work just lik it does when I play spanish, I didn't think of adding them as another layer of meat.

Gonna do that for sure.. although I'm giving portugese a try now.

[123]

Mass Monks (Spanish BiS here, their missionaries are tanky and speedy and get convertion tech)
Mass halbs+SO to delete trash (specialy in a 1vs1 with limited gold/no trade)
Kill them at Feudal/Castle, elies only reach their full potential at full boom late imp
Italians UU genovese crossbowman melt elies, it is not fun

I main persian whenever I can, they rock at Normal Nomad/closed maps if they boom into their late game armies (Savar/Elies/Trashbow + trash)

If you just let them boom into full upgraded Elies, you better have strong siege, like Ethiopians/Celt Siege Onager.

Very few things in game can stop a horde of elies, only:
-Genovese Crossbowman
-Mass monks
-Alot of Siege onagers

[renehvac]

Originally posted by James3157:

Khitans are op right now especially on 1v1, but are a good counter for not only just Persians, but currently against most civs in general.

Pretty sure Roman scorpions obliterate them.

[TheDiaper]

In high level TGs, the game should be over when one player can spam war elephants.

[123]

Originally posted by renehvac:

Originally posted by James3157:

Khitans are op right now especially on 1v1, but are a good counter for not only just Persians, but currently against most civs in general.

Pretty sure Roman scorpions obliterate them.

They dont, because any decent persian player will use the spread formation on their elies.

[Orb]

I don't think I've lost a Amazon Tunnel game where I spam full elephants from 6-7 castles in late game yet. Only thing that gives trouble is mass SIege Onagers which are well protected

[Kasbfaäfad]

Originally posted by TheDiaper:

In high level TGs, the game should be over when one player can spam war elephants.

Okay, does not seem like that when real high elo players like viper or Hera play Persians on Rage Forest and spam them, but okay.

[Kasbfaäfad]

Originally posted by Orb:

I don't think I've lost a Amazon Tunnel game where I spam full elephants from 6-7 castles in late game yet. Only thing that gives trouble is mass SIege Onagers which are well protected

+1 and maybe monks when micro is legit.

[Kasbfaäfad]

Originally posted by 123:

Mass Monks (Spanish BiS here, their missionaries are tanky and speedy and get convertion tech)
Mass halbs+SO to delete trash (specialy in a 1vs1 with limited gold/no trade)
Kill them at Feudal/Castle, elies only reach their full potential at full boom late imp
Italians UU genovese crossbowman melt elies, it is not fun

I main persian whenever I can, they rock at Normal Nomad/closed maps if they boom into their late game armies (Savar/Elies/Trashbow + trash)

If you just let them boom into full upgraded Elies, you better have strong siege, like Ethiopians/Celt Siege Onager.

Very few things in game can stop a horde of elies, only:
-Genovese Crossbowman
-Mass monks
-Alot of Siege onagers

+ 1 ... and Mamelukes