Resolved: Battle for Marathon achievement needs to be easier

[James3157]

Even with me trying to speed run this mission and playing it on standard difficulty instead of hard difficulty (contrary to my first play through) I think that 15 minute timer is not enough time. I was able to complete every side quest, except for the last one in helping someone leave Athens (cyan) resulting in me not being able to get achievement. How I almost got the achievement is by me trying to multitask and do more than one objective at the same time, but the problem is that bandits are everywhere and are just as problematic on standard difficulty as they are on hard difficulty. This mission is overall fun, but not for getting the achievement. What I think what needs to be done instead just simply for easier achievement part is hard difficulty have a 9 minute timer, moderate difficulty have a 12 minute timer, and standard difficulty have an 18 or 20 minute timer. Even if familiar with the map and playing on standard difficulty this achievement seems hard and annoying because of the timer.

[James3157]

Just for clarification what I mean by "multitask" is splitting up my army in order to do more than one task a time if my hero unit is not required for it. The hero unit's responsibility is perhaps the most annoying part because he has to walk on foot instead of using a horse to make it feel more like a speed run meaning that I have to speed run at a snail's pace, because the hero unit is slow in comparison to cavalry.

[gio.bruno]

This was discussed a lot in another thread:
https://steamcommunity.com/app/813780/discussions/0/6955341154010324313/

There we discussed the difficulty of the achievement, and later it was discovered that the timing of the persian invasions at the other side of the sea is triggered by completing the city quests.

So, at this moment my advice is leaving the wolf quest of the northernmost city for last.

There are other hints posted there, and any additional hints here are welcome.

[James3157]

Originally posted by gio.bruno:

This was discussed a lot in another thread:
https://steamcommunity.com/app/813780/discussions/0/6955341154010324313/

There we discussed the difficulty of the achievement, and later it was discovered that the timing of the persian invasions at the other side of the sea is triggered by completing the city quests.

So, at this moment my advice is leaving the wolf quest of the northernmost city for last.

There are other hints posted there, and any additional hints here are welcome.

Do oracles count as a city quest? If not that then what?

[Quintem]

Originally posted by James3157:

Originally posted by gio.bruno:

This was discussed a lot in another thread:
https://steamcommunity.com/app/813780/discussions/0/6955341154010324313/

There we discussed the difficulty of the achievement, and later it was discovered that the timing of the persian invasions at the other side of the sea is triggered by completing the city quests.

So, at this moment my advice is leaving the wolf quest of the northernmost city for last.

There are other hints posted there, and any additional hints here are welcome.

Do oracles count as a city quest? If not that then what?

I mentioned in my post that the armour/weapon upgrades and the priestess/oracle "quest" don't progress the Persian army.

[James3157]

Originally posted by Quintem:

I mentioned in my post that the armour/weapon upgrades and the priestess/oracle "quest" don't progress the Persian army.

Maybe I overlooked that part, but thank you. I will have to try this again sometime, but on standard difficulty.

[James3157]

I have not played this mission again yet for a third time, but I mentioned elsewhere that there is gaia scattered across the map that could be easier to get with scouts and I think that my issue might be resolved now. Of course people who are not familiar with the map may not know this and people who play this mission for the first time may not know that they are not supposed to complete any city quests yet either for early in the game. I do not think anymore that the timer for Battle for Marathon needs to be increased, but just simply requires better strategy for what objectives to complete first before completing city quests. While there are hints for this mission it is not exactly obvious to at least some people playing this for the first time (with myself included) that they are not supposed to complete any city quests early in the game. Apparently, the taking out rams with scouts, oracle quest, freeing villagers, and maybe the Medizers quest line (which has three quests total and rewards handsomely in gold but I am not 100% certain if it it is a city quest) do not count as city quests. I will comment later if I got the achievement or not, but it would be less of a speed run if I can ignore the completion of city quests until later in the game.

[James3157]

I got overconfident and thought that if I could delay the attack as much possible I could still win, but I still failed on hard difficulty. I was much closer this time, but still failed to get achievement. I guess that I will have to get the achievement on moderate or standard instead. A few things that I want to point out is Medizers quest is not possible until after trigger the Archemenids to attack, destroying all bandit camps does not trigger the Persians to attack without returning back for reward, and destroying all rams will trigger an attack response as well from Persians. If I had only just one extra minute or perhaps two minutes I could have gotten the achievement. Even though there is a way to cheese this achievement it is still challenging at least on hard difficulty and the three red cities fall very quickly as well once I trigger the Persians to attack. Also, it is false that light cavalry do not get attacked when attacking the rams and I had noticed they got attacked meaning that strategy did not work, but by the time I reached the rams I had a very powerful army and had only a few casualties if any because of my female priest and ranged units.

[Quintem]

Originally posted by James3157:

Also, it is false that light cavalry do not get attacked when attacking the rams and I had noticed they got attacked meaning that strategy did not work, but by the time I reached the rams I had a very powerful army and had only a few casualties if any because of my female priest and ranged units.

Are you sure it was the two you get from the town surrounded by bandits? All other light cavalry work normally it was just those two.

[James3157]

Originally posted by Quintem:

Are you sure it was the two you get from the town surrounded by bandits? All other light cavalry work normally it was just those two.

I am not sure, but I think I figured out why I did not get achievement on hard or moderate difficulty. I think it was because I needed to split up my forces with one to the north and the other to the south instead of focusing the entire army only towards the south before marching up north. I had extra time to spare on standard difficulty with a few minutes left over contrary to when I was playing on hard or moderate difficulty because I was only focusing on the south instead of splitting up my forces which was not really a good strategy. I might play this mission again someday (but not in the near future) for more of a challenge on hard/moderate difficulty to see if I can get this achievement again for a second time, but I finally got the achievement. It just took me a while to figure out how.

[Plokmijnuh]

Originally posted by James3157:

Originally posted by Quintem:

Are you sure it was the two you get from the town surrounded by bandits? All other light cavalry work normally it was just those two.

I am not sure, but I think I figured out why I did not get achievement on hard or moderate difficulty. I think it was because I needed to split up my forces with one to the north and the other to the south instead of focusing the entire army only towards the south before marching up north. I had extra time to spare on standard difficulty with a few minutes left over contrary to when I was playing on hard or moderate difficulty because I was only focusing on the south instead of splitting up my forces which was not really a good strategy. I might play this mission again someday (but not in the near future) for more of a challenge on hard/moderate difficulty to see if I can get this achievement again for a second time, but I finally got the achievement. It just took me a while to figure out how.

The achievement punishes you for going fast. So I took my time.

Pallene Quest is to destroy 4 bandit camps.
*Note Persian army only advances when Themistocles enters Pallene after the 4 camps are destroyed.
Solution= send Themistocles to complete quest when ready to progress Persian Army.

Shield Quest is to destroy a bandit army and collect an ox wagon (shield relic)
*Again the Persian army only advances when the ox wagon is brought inside the gate and Themistocles doesn't have to be present.
Solution= camp the ox wagon outside the gate.

Slay the Wolf is to kill the hero wolf.
*Note quest only advances Persian army when Themistocles is present in the town after the wolf is killed.
Solution= Kill the wolves and do not hand in the quest.

The Villager rescues/ Oracle mission do not progress the Persian Army and can be completed during this time.

Complete your First Quest which is destroying the rams. Destroy the Rams. This will progress the Persian Army to capture 1 town/city

This triggers escort Melenthios quest. Split army and go to the wood clearing to the SE and Outside Athens Main Gate.
Melenthios moves very fast so have your army at the bandit spawns before starting the quest.

Completing this escort means the second town will be captured by the Persians.

Send half your units to north west to for Marathon escort. Kill the new bandits that spawn where villagers where freed. Then have Themistocles enter Athens to start the escort timer. You have 5 minutes to clear the 3 towers.

Use the remaining army with Themistocles to clear the Medizers, collect wood, build beacons.

Turn in Ox Wagon. Have Themistocles enter the wolf town to hand in quest. Marathon escort will be completed and backtrack to Pallene and you have the achievement for doing all Marathon quests.

[James3157]

Originally posted by Plokmijnuh:

The achievement punishes you for going fast. So I took my time.

Pallene Quest is to destroy 4 bandit camps.
*Note Persian army only advances when Themistocles enters Pallene after the 4 camps are destroyed.
Solution= send Themistocles to complete quest when ready to progress Persian Army.

Shield Quest is to destroy a bandit army and collect an ox wagon (shield relic)
*Again the Persian army only advances when the ox wagon is brought inside the gate and Themistocles doesn't have to be present.
Solution= camp the ox wagon outside the gate.

Slay the Wolf is to kill the hero wolf.
*Note quest only advances Persian army when Themistocles is present in the town after the wolf is killed.
Solution= Kill the wolves and do not hand in the quest.

The Villager rescues/ Oracle mission do not progress the Persian Army and can be completed during this time.

Complete your First Quest which is destroying the rams. Destroy the Rams. This will progress the Persian Army to capture 1 town/city

This triggers escort Melenthios quest. Split army and go to the wood clearing to the SE and Outside Athens Main Gate.
Melenthios moves very fast so have your army at the bandit spawns before starting the quest.

Completing this escort means the second town will be captured by the Persians.

Send half your units to north west to for Marathon escort. Kill the new bandits that spawn where villagers where freed. Then have Themistocles enter Athens to start the escort timer. You have 5 minutes to clear the 3 towers.

Use the remaining army with Themistocles to clear the Medizers, collect wood, build beacons.

Turn in Ox Wagon. Have Themistocles enter the wolf town to hand in quest. Marathon escort will be completed and backtrack to Pallene and you have the achievement for doing all Marathon quests.

Turning in Ox Wagon and escorting Melenthios can take place early once the Persian invasion is triggered by taking out all rams and it they are not required for last game requirements. When I played I had the Ox Wagon sitting in front of the gate until I triggered the Persians to attack by taking out all rams.

[Plokmijnuh]

Originally posted by James3157:

Originally posted by Plokmijnuh:

The achievement punishes you for going fast. So I took my time.

Pallene Quest is to destroy 4 bandit camps.
*Note Persian army only advances when Themistocles enters Pallene after the 4 camps are destroyed.
Solution= send Themistocles to complete quest when ready to progress Persian Army.

Shield Quest is to destroy a bandit army and collect an ox wagon (shield relic)
*Again the Persian army only advances when the ox wagon is brought inside the gate and Themistocles doesn't have to be present.
Solution= camp the ox wagon outside the gate.

Slay the Wolf is to kill the hero wolf.
*Note quest only advances Persian army when Themistocles is present in the town after the wolf is killed.
Solution= Kill the wolves and do not hand in the quest.

The Villager rescues/ Oracle mission do not progress the Persian Army and can be completed during this time.

Complete your First Quest which is destroying the rams. Destroy the Rams. This will progress the Persian Army to capture 1 town/city

This triggers escort Melenthios quest. Split army and go to the wood clearing to the SE and Outside Athens Main Gate.
Melenthios moves very fast so have your army at the bandit spawns before starting the quest.

Completing this escort means the second town will be captured by the Persians.

Send half your units to north west to for Marathon escort. Kill the new bandits that spawn where villagers where freed. Then have Themistocles enter Athens to start the escort timer. You have 5 minutes to clear the 3 towers.

Use the remaining army with Themistocles to clear the Medizers, collect wood, build beacons.

Turn in Ox Wagon. Have Themistocles enter the wolf town to hand in quest. Marathon escort will be completed and backtrack to Pallene and you have the achievement for doing all Marathon quests.

Turning in Ox Wagon can take place early once the Persian invasion is triggered by taking out all rams and it is not required for one of the last game requirements. When I played I had the Ox Wagon sitting in front of the gate until I triggered the Persians to attack by taking out all rams.

I held off on the ox wagon because bringing the wagon into the town will complete a quest and therefore advance the Persian army. Because Themistocles doesn't have to be present and no bandits ever spawn there. I just held off turning in that quest until the final timer.

This method completed the objective in 5-7 minutes once the final timer appears and then you have to wait for the Marathon battle to start.

[James3157]

Originally posted by Plokmijnuh:

I held off on the ox wagon because bringing the wagon into the town will complete a quest and therefore advance the Persian army. Because Themistocles doesn't have to be present and no bandits ever spawn there. I just held off turning in that quest until the final timer.

The point is that bandits are near the gate when escorting. I send those fresh new troops to help protect the escort and get them closer to the rest of my army.

[James3157]

Some of military has to be split for going after Medizers early to help save time. Especially on moderate and hard difficulty, because concentrating the entire army to the south before going up north wastes a lot of time that I do not have. So that way once I reach Medizers with my hero unit for the last quest with fire signal I can start signal and build the 3 towers, but it takes at least 1 minute for a villager to even reach the towers. Getting two female priests before the Archemenid invasions starts also helps make it easier to get a bigger army and split forces.

[4th]

What a silly thread