Is pathfinding ever going to be properly fixed or are we waiting endlessly?

[Poliedro Toroidal]

This is probably the most frustrating aspect of the game. This issue has been around for years and years (some people think it's only a DE thing) and we had so many patches tweaking it with no real solution on sight.

Do you guys think this will be solved some day or it will be an issue for eternity?

[yujiri]

Probably will be an issue for eternity. If someone's tried for years to fix something and hasn't fixed it I wouldn't trust their ability to ever fix it, plus the devs aren't prioritizing it. It's ♥♥♥♥♥♥ but it's tolerable enough for me to still enjoy the game, so, oh well.

[box]

No at this point you have better chance of winning the lottery than expecting them to fix pathing.

How bad do you have to be to make it so that groups of units end up chilling at the back of your base even though you sent the orders to attack move ages ago?

How do you end up pathing villagers to walk based on a right angle triangle but end up having them take the longest possible path even with no obstructions, instead of taking the hypotenuse?

How is it that THE ORIGINAL GAME has better Trebuchet pathing than that of DE?

How is it that villager pathing has been "improved" yet they still manage to idle, bump/collide block each other like they were before the patch?

At this point is "path finding has been improved" just a ritualistic chant to sign off every patch note?

[zenos]

it's too complex for modern developpers

[GRIGGSENUM]

If anything their "fixes" have just been making it worse. Just revert the pathing back to it's prime which was back before ROR released.

[DesertRose92]

Having watched some interviews about AoE 2's code it seems to be a total mess.
Like, changing a setting in the scenario editor somehow breaks something completely unrelated in a campaign.

I expected it to be a coin toss. Will they ever find what variable to change so that randomly things break in the right way to have the desired outcome?

[Gequi]

Publicado originalmente por DesertRose92:

Having watched some interviews about AoE 2's code it seems to be a total mess.
Like, changing a setting in the scenario editor somehow breaks something completely unrelated in a campaign.

I expected it to be a coin toss. Will they ever find what variable to change so that randomly things break in the right way to have the desired outcome?

Nonsense. Modders do a better job in worse situations, and for free.

[Moist Butt]

Publicado originalmente por Gequi:

Publicado originalmente por DesertRose92:

Having watched some interviews about AoE 2's code it seems to be a total mess.
Like, changing a setting in the scenario editor somehow breaks something completely unrelated in a campaign.

I expected it to be a coin toss. Will they ever find what variable to change so that randomly things break in the right way to have the desired outcome?

Nonsense. Modders do a better job in worse situations, and for free.

You should post the mods that fixes pathfinding or better yet let the devs know. They could probably ask for mod permission to incorporate into the game.

[Gequi]

Publicado originalmente por Moist Butt:

Publicado originalmente por Gequi:

Nonsense. Modders do a better job in worse situations, and for free.

You should post the mods that fixes pathfinding or better yet let the devs know. They could probably ask for mod permission to incorporate into the game.

I was talking in general, not for the pathfinding issue. You can search mods for a lot of games fixing what devs don't want to.

The excuse of a messy code for not fixing problems of a 20 years old game (or 4-5 years old game if you only focus on DE) while they keep selling DLCs, is a bad joke.

More fixing, less arguing and fewer excuses.

[Flakstruk]

Theyre obviously working on pathinh because its shifting over successive patches. Incrementally working saves breaking everything.

I think theyre trying to simplify things a bit for xbox players but that really needs to be an option, rather than base experience. Having units do things other than what you tell them in a melee or boarding transports is really annoying

[Moist Butt]

Publicado originalmente por Gequi:

Publicado originalmente por Moist Butt:

You should post the mods that fixes pathfinding or better yet let the devs know. They could probably ask for mod permission to incorporate into the game.

I was talking in general, not for the pathfinding issue. You can search mods for a lot of games fixing what devs don't want to.

The excuse of a messy code for not fixing problems of a 20 years old game (or 4-5 years old game if you only focus on DE) while they keep selling DLCs, is a bad joke.

More fixing, less arguing and fewer excuses.

Afaik the top mods are mostly MP related ones such as small trees. These mods are much simpler in nature compared to a complex issue like pathfinding. U said there are mods that fixes the game. Can u actually name any mods that fixes the game in a complex level?

if you have been following their development cycle which u clearly havent from the sounds of it then u would know that the current pathfinding is one of the worst in the history of DE. What possible benefit exist for them to make the game play worse then launch with respect to pathfinding? The only logical answer to that question is they are working with spaghetti code which isnt something that is easily addressed like u were saying.

And dont get me wrong I would love for them to actually fix the problem, but pathfinding is a complex thing to get it right in general. Especially if u are working with spaghetti code and an old engine. You should look at LoL and some of their crazy bugs introduced over the years. Reason I am saying this is because they are a big company with a very successful game yet updates still break the game from time to time. Hint they have same culprit i.e. spaghetti code. idk if riot games one of the biggest game companies in the world still get fked by spaghetti code then imo we shouldnt be too harsh on DE devs.

The fact that the game is in a worse state with respect to pathfinding now then 4-5 years ago when the game was released should speak for itself for how tricky the problem actually is.

[Kasbfaäfad]

Publicado originalmente por Gequi:

Publicado originalmente por Moist Butt:

You should post the mods that fixes pathfinding or better yet let the devs know. They could probably ask for mod permission to incorporate into the game.

I was talking in general, not for the pathfinding issue. You can search mods for a lot of games fixing what devs don't want to.

The excuse of a messy code for not fixing problems of a 20 years old game (or 4-5 years old game if you only focus on DE) while they keep selling DLCs, is a bad joke.

More fixing, less arguing and fewer excuses.

And u realize they have to earn money to keep people engaged working on anything at all??
And if it were that simple, they would have solved the problem for years. As far as I see they try everything.

It's not like you could solve the problem neither do I.

Personally I think the pathfinding bugs are minor but I am also not playing on a 1800 elo level where small pathing issues can break your gameplan

[James3157]

The majority of people (meaning more than 50% of all negative reviews) who give AoE II: DE basegame a negative review on Steam (which is only a small percentage of players because basegame has more than 90% positive reviews on Steam) where they do not recommend this game is probably only because of pathfinding (including idle villagers and other units),crashes (which can include both multiplayer and even single player depending on how frequent it occurs while playing), issues with multiplayer (such as a toxic community for example), and/or perhaps (but not 100% certain of this and might be less common than I think) unable to successfully launch the game. While people commonly complain about pathfinding Moist Butt has a good point across about "spaghetti code".

[Gequi]

Publicado originalmente por Flakstruk:

Theyre obviously working on pathinh because its shifting over successive patches. Incrementally working saves breaking everything.

I think theyre trying to simplify things a bit for xbox players but that really needs to be an option, rather than base experience. Having units do things other than what you tell them in a melee or boarding transports is really annoying

Of course they are working, but it looks a never ending work ... that's the reason of the owner of this post. Not so hard to understand... read again the title of the initial post.

Publicado originalmente por Moist Butt:

Afaik the top mods are mostly MP related ones such as small trees. These mods are much simpler in nature compared to a complex issue like pathfinding. U said there are mods that fixes the game. Can u actually name any mods that fixes the game in a complex level?

Almost all Bethesda games: Fallout and Elder Scrolls.

Publicado originalmente por Moist Butt:

if you have been following their development cycle which u clearly havent from the sounds of it then u would know that the current pathfinding is one of the worst in the history of DE. What possible benefit exist for them to make the game play worse then launch with respect to pathfinding? The only logical answer to that question is they are working with spaghetti code which isnt something that is easily addressed like u were saying.

I did not mention any benefit...

Publicado originalmente por Moist Butt:

And dont get me wrong I would love for them to actually fix the problem, but pathfinding is a complex thing to get it right in general. Especially if u are working with spaghetti code and an old engine. You should look at LoL and some of their crazy bugs introduced over the years. Reason I am saying this is because they are a big company with a very successful game yet updates still break the game from time to time. Hint they have same culprit i.e. spaghetti code. idk if riot games one of the biggest game companies in the world still get fked by spaghetti code then imo we shouldnt be too harsh on DE devs.

The fact that the game is in a worse state with respect to pathfinding now then 4-5 years ago when the game was released should speak for itself for how tricky the problem actually is.

Again, I did not mention that the problem was easy or not tricky. Shall we repeat again? 20 years. Read the title of the owner post.

"HARD/MESSY" NOT EQUAL TO "IMPOSSIBLE IN 20 YEARS"

Publicado originalmente por Kasbfaäfad:

And u realize they have to earn money to keep people engaged working on anything at all??
And if it were that simple, they would have solved the problem for years. As far as I see they try everything.

It's not like you could solve the problem neither do I.

Personally I think the pathfinding bugs are minor but I am also not playing on a 1800 elo level where small pathing issues can break your gameplan

Of course they have to earn money, but I will not buy any DLC until basic things are fixed. Fixing first, paying later.

20 years is not enought for a so "hard-messy" problem? are you kidding? nonsense.

Of course pathfinding is minor, only if you compare it with other problems that are even more serious and still are not fixed too, like villagers and units going idle.

[James3157]

Publicado originalmente por Gequi:

Of course pathfinding is minor, only if you compare it with other problems that are even more serious and still are not fixed too, like villagers and units going idle.

I would combine idle villagers and other units with pathfinding. The reason why they might be idle is because they are stuck or because they have nothing else to do and are waiting for orders since they do not autonomously do something else besides farming if wood is not short on supply. Only a small percentage of players on Steam (less than 10%) do not recommend basegame of AoE II: DE and one of the highest rated Steam games as well. The majority of players who do not recommend basegame is probably only because of pathfinding (including idle villagers and idle units), crashes (depending on how frequent it takes place), issues with not liking multiplayer (at least partially because of a toxic community), and/or perhaps unable to launch game (but not 100% certain of this and might be less common than I think). Idle units does however mean you need to pay attention to units who are just sitting around and not doing anything.

[Kasbfaäfad]

Publicado originalmente por Gequi:

Publicado originalmente por Flakstruk:

Theyre obviously working on pathinh because its shifting over successive patches. Incrementally working saves breaking everything.

I think theyre trying to simplify things a bit for xbox players but that really needs to be an option, rather than base experience. Having units do things other than what you tell them in a melee or boarding transports is really annoying

Of course they are working, but it looks a never ending work ... that's the reason of the owner of this post. Not so hard to understand... read again the title of the initial post.

Publicado originalmente por Moist Butt:

Afaik the top mods are mostly MP related ones such as small trees. These mods are much simpler in nature compared to a complex issue like pathfinding. U said there are mods that fixes the game. Can u actually name any mods that fixes the game in a complex level?

Almost all Bethesda games: Fallout and Elder Scrolls.

Publicado originalmente por Moist Butt:

if you have been following their development cycle which u clearly havent from the sounds of it then u would know that the current pathfinding is one of the worst in the history of DE. What possible benefit exist for them to make the game play worse then launch with respect to pathfinding? The only logical answer to that question is they are working with spaghetti code which isnt something that is easily addressed like u were saying.

I did not mention any benefit...

Publicado originalmente por Moist Butt:

And dont get me wrong I would love for them to actually fix the problem, but pathfinding is a complex thing to get it right in general. Especially if u are working with spaghetti code and an old engine. You should look at LoL and some of their crazy bugs introduced over the years. Reason I am saying this is because they are a big company with a very successful game yet updates still break the game from time to time. Hint they have same culprit i.e. spaghetti code. idk if riot games one of the biggest game companies in the world still get fked by spaghetti code then imo we shouldnt be too harsh on DE devs.

The fact that the game is in a worse state with respect to pathfinding now then 4-5 years ago when the game was released should speak for itself for how tricky the problem actually is.

Again, I did not mention that the problem was easy or not tricky. Shall we repeat again? 20 years. Read the title of the owner post.

"HARD/MESSY" NOT EQUAL TO "IMPOSSIBLE IN 20 YEARS"

Publicado originalmente por Kasbfaäfad:

And u realize they have to earn money to keep people engaged working on anything at all??
And if it were that simple, they would have solved the problem for years. As far as I see they try everything.

It's not like you could solve the problem neither do I.

Personally I think the pathfinding bugs are minor but I am also not playing on a 1800 elo level where small pathing issues can break your gameplan

Of course they have to earn money, but I will not buy any DLC until basic things are fixed. Fixing first, paying later.

20 years is not enought for a so "hard-messy" problem? are you kidding? nonsense.

Of course pathfinding is minor, only if you compare it with other problems that are even more serious and still are not fixed too, like villagers and units going idle.

20 years is not correct. The game was not renewed/patched from aoc until HD came out. In HD they simply used the same pathfinding as in the original code.
SInce DE pathfinding is a topic, i.e. 4 years.

Since this is nothing you can make money with, probably half a programmer is responsible for this. Maybe he has 10h a month for pathfinding issues.

Do not act like 30 people are working on it for 25 years. Nobody could ever finance such a timespan of work.

Dude, there are problems in science that appear simpler than pathfinding and have not been solved after half a century. And pathfinding is an active field of research in general. Take a look: http://theory.stanford.edu/~amitp/GameProgramming/AStarComparison.html

or here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pathfinding

I did my PhD in a related field (artifical intelligence). Guess you are professor then?