Some tips for improvement?

[Trevor Drakenor]

Its my first time playing AoE II, I'm able to comfortably fight up to moderate enemy but I seem to have reached my peak on Hard difficulty with no way of knowing whats the proper way to actually defeat them. I tried early rush to attack them so I could stop them or at least, hinder them from developing but that doesnt work. So I try sending a few small group to intercept expansion while building up the economy, doesn't work either. So whats the trick here? I played Teutons mostly and I heard, apparently they have slow start compared to other civs.

[nehireta]

Some things to improve in any rts is the economic development, if you rush but stop development is not worth, maybe look for a build order if you not know one yet.
Having some economy then is necessary to use the resources, having lots of resources in stockpile is not good, you have to use it.
In the military aspect, is usually better to focus on 1 or 2 tipes of unit and mass numbers of them, research their upgrades and focus your economy on the resources needed for those units (For archer --> Wood/Gold, for Knights --> Food/Gold).
Another thing to note will be the configuration of the game, look out the keybinds and try to use the most basic ones, like for producing a villager dont click the TC and click the villager icon, just select the TC with the key and press Q to produce villager, this way will be a lot easier to constantly produce vils.

[Trevor Drakenor]

I came from other game where I am used to the idea of aggressive early game, used to be I would build up force then go for attack. There was a player in Zero-K taught me the hard way what its like to harass hard early game. Any damage and pulling off workers would result in players economic going behind. The style works well in game like CnC red alert, tiberium, Starcraft 2 and Cross Legion so far.

Though that style likely doesn't pass in AoE II it appears, I think maybe because the game played in a way that a civilization are more resilient to harrassment and the likes.

Here I would build 4 barracks and then market for mass units to attack, maybe 2 stable to get some raiders going on although by the time I have 2 stables up enemy already have spearmans to counter it. Maybe there is technique to properly harass, I can't quite grasp it though.

Workers.... I'm not sure if I should build a certain number of villager then save for Feudal age, or I build worker non stop, AI seem to rush era pretty hard, fearing I might be far behind in tech if I go too hard on workers production.

[KingKickAss]

I find a lot of people tend to become reliant on a castle for their defense, which they can get away with up until Hard, because Hard will show up before you can get the castle. The important thing when you go on the attack(Especially an early one) is to not neglect your own base. Even if you kill his villagers and distract him, you could end up even more behind than he is because you let your base sit idle, so in reality you've gained no advantage because you weren't progressing while slowing him down.

Aggressive early game is very much a thing in Age. You'll want villager kills and resource denial. The part where you actually close out the game comes in Castle where you can roll in a ram or something to blow up their town center.

If his villagers aren't doing stuff and yours are, you're establishing an advantage.

[nehireta]

Originally posted by Trevor Drakenor:

I came from other game where I am used to the idea of aggressive early game, used to be I would build up force then go for attack. There was a player in Zero-K taught me the hard way what its like to harass hard early game. Any damage and pulling off workers would result in players economic going behind. The style works well in game like CnC red alert, tiberium, Starcraft 2 and Cross Legion so far.

Though that style likely doesn't pass in AoE II it appears, I think maybe because the game played in a way that a civilization are more resilient to harrassment and the likes.

Here I would build 4 barracks and then market for mass units to attack, maybe 2 stable to get some raiders going on although by the time I have 2 stables up enemy already have spearmans to counter it. Maybe there is technique to properly harass, I can't quite grasp it though.

Workers.... I'm not sure if I should build a certain number of villager then save for Feudal age, or I build worker non stop, AI seem to rush era pretty hard, fearing I might be far behind in tech if I go too hard on workers production.

Rushing is indeed a standar strategy in Aoe2 as well, at least in open maps, where is hard to wall and play defensively, theres build orders for those, archer rush, scout rush are the most common, the objective is gain momentum and possibly kill some vils, this will give you map control and economic advantage, which will not make you win the game instantly but will give you the upper hand and snowball the rest of the game.
If you kill some vils, then you must:
1) Developt even more economy, reach castle/imperial age earlier and stomp with powerful units
2) Produce more units than the enemy have, if you dont stop producing units you will have more because more resources = more units

In terms of villagers, the optimal thing to do is NEVER stop producing, at least til castle age, when normally you will build aditional Town Center to produce even more villager. Speaking of a maximum amount, everybody can have their opinion, but most of your population have to be villagers, having 120-140 is not wrong.

Something that i´ll like to adress is that the AI will not advance ages in much optimal times, even on extreme difficulty, so if you follow build orders you will advance first, which will make your life easier.

[Trevor Drakenor]

hmm... I think my mistake was that I often stop producing villager and use all those resources for military unit in order to keep the attack up. Which resulted in me having 54 villager at most. So it is fine to keep producing villager at the expense of age progression?

[Marco]

Depending on what map are you playing, try to get to the Feudal Age in less than 10 minutes and make 3-4 militia units during age research. You need 20-21 villagers before advancing, most of them on food, 8-9 on wood and 1-2 on gold.

As a Teuton, you have huge discount for farms, but I think you might already have seen that.

The early rush strategy really depends on what type of rush you are going to do (archer rush, men-at-arms or scouts) and, as I said, on the map you are on.

On Arabia, you have to make villagers non-stop and build a blacksmith as soon as you are in Feudal Age. I'm not that into build orders for archer rush or scouts, what I do against Hardest and Extreme AI in 1vs1 on Arabia is tied to men-at-arms. After you have a handful of them and you have at least their basic upgrades, you can send 5-6 of them to harass gold miners or enemy woodlines. AI would throw archers+skirmishers when you use infantry, so hit and run. I recommend to put 2-3 villagers on stone in early Feudal Age, and constructing a first tower (preferably next to mines), because AI usually sends its archers+skirmishers blob to attack your own villagers.

If you have built 4 barracks, try to mass new infantry and go back to enemy base, because it's better to keep AI under pressure. AI will be in Castle Age at minute 20-22, the first things it does are upgrading archers and skirmishers and building a monastery to hunt relics. You can keep a light cavalry next to every relic, so the enemy monk will try to convert them and will be killed.

Please note that, depending on civ, AI can switch to knights to counter your men-at-arms, ensure you have a great economy to upgrade your units, so don't stop making villagers. In Castle Age, you also need at least 1-2 new Town Centers (you can make more) to pump more villagers at a faster rate and a university to research ballistics (Teutons have murder holes for free) and drop the first castle next to the enemy base (don't forget archer upgrades). Protect your villagers while they are constructing and protect the castle itself because AI will already have a siege workshop training rams for sure.

Also, try to intercept all villagers going towards your base for resources and hunt all of their lumber/mining camps outside of their main base. Hard AI tends to make 70-80 villagers max, but Hardest and Extreme can train up to 120-135 if you are playing with a pop limit of 200.

Keep spreading your villagers on every gold/stone reserve, because you need at least 2 more castles to keep control of enemy base. AI at minute 33-35 will be in Imperial Age, but this is not a problem for you if you stop all of their knights/crossbowmen+skirmishers/mangonels or rams, attack their Town Centers very often with knights or long swordsmen (if you researched gambesons) and delay your ageup by some minutes.

You will see if you are doing fine by watching the score. If you manage to double AI's score and reduce their villagers to only a few (usually under 20 workers), AI will resign.

[nehireta]

Originally posted by Trevor Drakenor:

hmm... I think my mistake was that I often stop producing villager and use all those resources for military unit in order to keep the attack up. Which resulted in me having 54 villager at most. So it is fine to keep producing villager at the expense of age progression?

Yeah, keep producing vils is important, is not necessary to stop producing them for creating military, just add more farms if you need more food, if you need more food for advancing age is the same, add more farms.
Maybe look if you are stockpiling too much of another resource, if you have much wood, make more farms, if you have much gold, build a market and buy some food, the market is useful even for selling the wood and then buy food.

[FloosWorld]

Originally posted by Trevor Drakenor:

hmm... I think my mistake was that I often stop producing villager and use all those resources for military unit in order to keep the attack up. Which resulted in me having 54 villager at most. So it is fine to keep producing villager at the expense of age progression?

More villagers = more eco = more resources to spend

[KingKickAss]

Originally posted by Trevor Drakenor:

hmm... I think my mistake was that I often stop producing villager and use all those resources for military unit in order to keep the attack up. Which resulted in me having 54 villager at most. So it is fine to keep producing villager at the expense of age progression?

Yeah. You'll eventually have so many resources flowing in that you'll naturally get enough to age up. Don't idle your TC trying to save up for the next age.

[Trevor Drakenor]

alright I will keep that in mind

[KaRma]

1. Check your settings and mods (put 'aoe2 settings' on youtube and watch theviper's and hera's videos)
2. Set up your hotkeys. Very important if you want to play multiplayer.
3. Download the mod: 'Interactive build order guide'. You will learn about several starts in this game.
4. General tips: Try to get 120 vills in all games (it depends obviously what are you playing, but it's important that your TC is not idle.
5. Check counters, units and civs. You shouldn't play same with franks and britons for example.

[Quintem]

Trevor Drakenor, I'm willing to watch you play vs the AI, if you host a game online I can watch you as an observer and see what you're doing. Might be some obvious thing I could catch, but is not obvious to a new player of AoE2.

Also I always ask this have you done the Art of War tutorials and watched any standard build guides on YouTube?

As for your comment on Teutons yes they're a mid to late game civ, they have powerful infantry and cavalry backed up by excellent siege. Their cheap farms are amazing for saving wood and letting you do castle age economic boom smoothly. Really pushes you forward in that mid to late stage. Your opponent having to spend more and getting less.

A new (technically old) style of play has resurfaced that serves slower civs like Teutons well, which is focusing on spears/skirmishers to attack and/or defend instead of going for gold units or scouts which are heavy on food.

https://youtu.be/O1LCfBAuLbU?si=GG3prKOYD7YCDSTm

Here is a pro player explaining it.

Originally posted by KingKickAss:

Originally posted by Trevor Drakenor:

hmm... I think my mistake was that I often stop producing villager and use all those resources for military unit in order to keep the attack up. Which resulted in me having 54 villager at most. So it is fine to keep producing villager at the expense of age progression?

Yeah. You'll eventually have so many resources flowing in that you'll naturally get enough to age up. Don't idle your TC trying to save up for the next age.

Actually you can let your TC idle if you want to go up to the next age. More so from castle to imperial than dark to feudal or feudal to castle. Depending on what you want to do a small idle window won't hurt too much. Problem is if you're booming and have 4 TCs you're spending a lot of food per minute, gold tends to not be an issue but it's like 400-600ish food per minute on villagers. Idling for a moment can get you the resources to age up. Big thing about getting to imperial first is you can start making trebuchets. This lets you go on the offensive earlier.

Originally posted by Marco - slow ass infantry:

Depending on what map are you playing, try to get to the Feudal Age in less than 10 minutes and make 3-4 militia units during age research. You need 20-21 villagers before advancing, most of them on food, 8-9 on wood and 1-2 on gold.

The new standard unless you're going for an economic build is 19 villagers. Some builds even go up as low as 18. 20-21 was the old standard meta for open maps.

In addition unless you plan to make archers gold is not needed until a bit after you're in feudal age for getting to castle. If you're doing men-at-arms rush that's more specific and you need a little gold for it.

[KingKickAss]

Originally posted by Quintem:

Originally posted by KingKickAss:

Yeah. You'll eventually have so many resources flowing in that you'll naturally get enough to age up. Don't idle your TC trying to save up for the next age.

Actually you can let your TC idle if you want to go up to the next age. More so from castle to imperial than dark to feudal or feudal to castle. Depending on what you want to do a small idle window won't hurt too much. Problem is if you're booming and have 4 TCs you're spending a lot of food per minute, gold tends to not be an issue but it's like 400-600ish food per minute on villagers. Idling for a moment can get you the resources to age up. Big thing about getting to imperial first is you can start making trebuchets. This lets you go on the offensive earlier.

Yeah. I was going to write a thing about multiple TCs and ideal villager count, etc. But I figured the context was more towards the early game of Feudal going into Castle. Because multiple TCs come into play later, etc. There's tons of specifics, but I was thinking more as just a rule of thumb when it comes to new players.

[Quintem]

Originally posted by Mattmoo:

Just play the game.

But I think Persians, Chinese, Mayans and Aztecs are good way of learning a bit faster with earlier civ boosts… Still you don’t want them to throw ya off.

Play the campaign until you get the hang of it, at least for a day or two. Then jump into to whatever you want.

The best learning, is experience.

Chinese are one of the worst civs for new players. By a huge margin.

If you want to learn in a very generic sense I always recommend Byzantines. broad tech tree with lots of optinos and no real economic bonus, which forces you to learn correct standard build orders. A few other civs also have no real early bonuses. The more early bonuses a civ has the more it glosses over your errors in play.

EDIT:

Originally posted by KingKickAss:

Yeah. I was going to write a thing about multiple TCs and ideal villager count, etc. But I figured the context was more towards the early game of Feudal going into Castle. Because multiple TCs come into play later, etc. There's tons of specifics, but I was thinking more as just a rule of thumb when it comes to new players.

Yeah I should of listed it as a more advanced technique but I felt I should mention it. I've been booming myself and even seen pros do it. Where you're like hold on I'm still in castle age at this time because you've got like 4 or 5 TCs running and no food. Your opponent hits Imperail age before you and starts trebbing down your castles and upgrading their castle age units. It's an awkward situation to get into.

[Trevor Drakenor]

Originally posted by Quintem:

Trevor Drakenor, I'm willing to watch you play vs the AI, if you host a game online I can watch you as an observer and see what you're doing. Might be some obvious thing I could catch, but is not obvious to a new player of AoE2.

Also I always ask this have you done the Art of War tutorials and watched any standard build guides on YouTube?

As for your comment on Teutons yes they're a mid to late game civ, they have powerful infantry and cavalry backed up by excellent siege. Their cheap farms are amazing for saving wood and letting you do castle age economic boom smoothly. Really pushes you forward in that mid to late stage. Your opponent having to spend more and getting less.

A new (technically old) style of play has resurfaced that serves slower civs like Teutons well, which is focusing on spears/skirmishers to attack and/or defend instead of going for gold units or scouts which are heavy on food.

I can record the gameplay and upload unlisted video to youtube and send you the links. or I could also do it now if you up for it.

I think I got the basics down, just that AoE II seems to have a bit of a different style to it compared to most RTS that I'm not used to. For one, villager gets to hold up in base to defend themselves, making harassment less as effective as it did in other game.

The thought crossed my mind before with how often AI deploys cavalry, I was wondering why people suggested archers more often on a Teuton that doesn't really seem to favor them, but I can see why with the resource uses on them. The cheap farm is what got me sold on it though, not having to spend too much worker on chopping woods just to get a farm going is a plus for me.