Italians are weak af

[Reclusiarch Grimaldus]

So, been trying hard to learn the italian civ but it seems a major challenge to win a game with them since they are quite weak in almost every way. Unique unit is one trick ponny and condos are also lame, sarjents have at least some armor to make it up for it but italians are in general lame i'd like some bolance it cant be all around bad :(

[James3157]

Ironically, the Italians are actually descent in at least some ways especially for water maps and navy. Overall, their economic bonuses may be only average at best; although, they are cheaper to age up than various other civilizations as well.

[Mia Wallace]

https://aoestats.io/civs/italians/

Well looks like a water and fast castle civ :)
Open maps like Arabia civ is weak: ~44.08% winrate
Arena: ~52.53% winrate
Coastal: ~ 50.88% winrate

Not the best civ but not the worst either.

[KingKickAss]

They're more orientated towards naval maps and team games.

[Reclusiarch Grimaldus]

Yeah but on arena which is the most played map and if u get italians on the team you might aswell go another game and dont waste time for defeat is certain unless its some very good player. I mean come on, condos cant even kill champs, civ is very limited and should never be picked if you trying to win games.

[Mia Wallace]

Originally posted by HELBRECHT:

Yeah but on arena which is the most played map and if u get italians on the team you might aswell go another game and dont waste time for defeat is certain unless its some very good player. I mean come on, condos cant even kill champs, civ is very limited and should never be picked if you trying to win games.

dude you doesn't read my post ? Arena: ~52.53% winrate

Then tell me why you lost vs italiens ?
https://www.aoe2insights.com/match/242608542/

[KingKickAss]

Originally posted by HELBRECHT:

I mean come on, condos cant even kill champs

Why are you making an anti-gunpowder unit to fight champions? Especially when playing as an archer/gunpowder civ?

[Mia Wallace]

Originally posted by HELBRECHT:

Yeah but on arena which is the most played map

No its not :D
https://aoestats.io/maps/
Arabia is the most played map.
1vs1:
Arena 16.86%
Arabia: 52.16%
TG:
Arena: 23.69%
Arabia: 16.88%

Arabia: 388,037 games
Arena: 196,533 games

Originally posted by HELBRECHT:

unless its some very good player.

If only you had looked at the link. Would you have seen that the win rate is highest at 1050-1200 elo (51.50%). After that, it falls off. 1600+ Elo has a 48.62% win rate. So the player who plays this civilization doesn't have to be good to win with you. (teamgames)

Originally posted by HELBRECHT:

if u get italians on the team you might aswell go another game and dont waste time for defeat

Just keep playing Dota 2, probably the better game for you.

[Reclusiarch Grimaldus]

So the civ is actually strong you say? I dont seem to be able to make them work then i feel like economy is weak and has nothing to show for it, it's siege is not very good, cavalry is also quite bad, it doesnt have halbs either. You can go FC into nothing but a bunch of archers and nothin else.- Sorry maybe bias but I really think this civ is probably the worst of the game.

[Reclusiarch Grimaldus]

Originally posted by KingKickAss:

Originally posted by HELBRECHT:

I mean come on, condos cant even kill champs

Why are you making an anti-gunpowder unit to fight champions? Especially when playing as an archer/gunpowder civ?

Exactly can anything be more useless than that? An anti-gunpowder infantry unit when there's only 3 maybe good gunpowder civs in the game :/

[KingKickAss]

Originally posted by HELBRECHT:

Originally posted by KingKickAss:

Why are you making an anti-gunpowder unit to fight champions? Especially when playing as an archer/gunpowder civ?

Exactly can anything be more useless than that? An anti-gunpowder infantry unit when there's only 3 maybe good gunpowder civs in the game :/

Half of the civs have access to gunpowder, and the Condo is the team bonus of the Italians. And yes, misusing a unit will cause it to underperform, like pretty much everything else would. If they could take champions in a fight, that would be insanely good, if not totally broken.

[meleander]

Originally posted by HELBRECHT:

So, been trying hard to learn the italian civ but it seems a major challenge to win a game with them since they are quite weak in almost every way. Unique unit is one trick ponny and condos are also lame, sarjents have at least some armor to make it up for it but italians are in general lame i'd like some bolance it cant be all around bad :(

Italians are the best civ for sling.

Italians have a very quick feudal and castle age - you can out-eco your enemy.

Italians have good gunpowder units.


Overall, I think Italians are not that bad, it's just they are very unique and specific civ. Like Poles who are lategame civ and bad at the start, while Ethopians and Malians are great for early archer pushes (but Mailians are much worse when it comes to map where you can't rush).

[dannyc2012]

Team games vs Ai (on hard) i take care of Genoese crossbow with Dravidians skirmishers. Once the gold runs out they are in trouble

Genoese crossbow are pretty hardy against mangonels too which gets annoying in castle age

I never play any cavalry or cavalry archers against Italians

[Reclusiarch Grimaldus]

Originally posted by dannyc2012:

Team games vs Ai (on hard) i take care of Genoese crossbow with Dravidians skirmishers. Once the gold runs out they are in trouble

Genoese crossbow are pretty hardy against mangonels too which gets annoying in castle age

I never play any cavalry or cavalry archers against Italians

It does feel pretty limited to archery units and navy units with some ok trade. But I been playing them for a bit now (vs AI more than anything) and compared to other civs it feels like you need to go tryhard every time to close a game and they are easily countered.

[Reclusiarch Grimaldus]

Originally posted by KingKickAss:

Originally posted by HELBRECHT:

Exactly can anything be more useless than that? An anti-gunpowder infantry unit when there's only 3 maybe good gunpowder civs in the game :/

Half of the civs have access to gunpowder, and the Condo is the team bonus of the Italians. And yes, misusing a unit will cause it to underperform, like pretty much everything else would. If they could take champions in a fight, that would be insanely good, if not totally broken.

But you see, nobody goes gun powder units unless they have no arbalest since they are very expensive. So it's a very specific very situational moment when you can actually play them but on most match ups they're worst than halbs.

[Reclusiarch Grimaldus]

Originally posted by meleander:

Originally posted by HELBRECHT:

So, been trying hard to learn the italian civ but it seems a major challenge to win a game with them since they are quite weak in almost every way. Unique unit is one trick ponny and condos are also lame, sarjents have at least some armor to make it up for it but italians are in general lame i'd like some bolance it cant be all around bad :(

Italians are the best civ for sling.

Italians have a very quick feudal and castle age - you can out-eco your enemy.

Italians have good gunpowder units.


Overall, I think Italians are not that bad, it's just they are very unique and specific civ. Like Poles who are lategame civ and bad at the start, while Ethopians and Malians are great for early archer pushes (but Mailians are much worse when it comes to map where you can't rush).

how do you approach the game with this civ? I think you kinda get forced to FC rush and make a castle on their face or else they run over you on then long term