Steppe Lancer Vs Knight

[tiberiansun371alexw]

When is the Steppe lancer better than the knight? You can kite pikemen and hit through thin walls. And... I can't think of anything else. I just want to know when to pick which unit.

[erik9595]

The only time I used them was in the mongol campaign due to their extra health from civ bonus and that they are as fast as mangudai

[grraf]

When yr playing mongol...or tatar if you have a comfortable lead and just want to flex and waste some time...

[KingKickAss]

Knights are the more practical and generally better pick. Steppe Lancers are particularly good when they're punching down or you can get a good ball with them going. That extra range lets you micro them and have a bunch of Lancers simultaneously hit enemy units(or buildings) to blow them up. Where as Knights trip over each other and have to trade hits with whatever they're fighting. Definitely not something I would build if I don't have the edge, they're for punching down.

[tiberiansun371alexw]

I was hoping they'd have a role, even if it was specialized.

Light cavalry for example are better than knights at killing monks. Also sometimes you want to kill that siege weapon ASAP and your faster light cavalry will kill it faster than a knight when you consider the time it takes to go from wherever your army is to where the crisis spot is. Also if someone is auto-attacking with mangonels, it's funny to watch them to trash their own mangonel and some infantry just to kill 3 light cavalry after they clsoed the distance, it's a bit less funny when you're losing knights. Knights can obviously win 1 vs 1 and are better in most situations, but there are sometimes reasons to use light cavalry besides the "I ran out of gold, so I can't use knights"

So I was thinking maybe there is some hidden specialization that the steppe lancer is better at, maybe one matchup or whatever. but apprently... no they don't, at least not when either player is still in the game.

[KingKickAss]

Originally posted by tiberiansun371alexw:

I was hoping they'd have a role, even if it was specialized.

So I was thinking maybe there is some hidden specialization that the steppe lancer is better at, maybe one matchup or whatever. but apprently... no they don't, at least not when either player is still in the game.

They're a raiding/harassing unit. A small group of them are very effective at picking off villagers and other units. Even knights.
But you have to micro them to actually get use out of them.

[Boshiken]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTYlGFHDR7Y

[Marco]

Originally posted by tiberiansun371alexw:

When is the Steppe lancer better than the knight? You can kite pikemen and hit through thin walls. And... I can't think of anything else. I just want to know when to pick which unit.

First time I saw them in Kotyan Khan's campaign, I thought they were an anti-knight unit and that they were a reference from Empire Earth as well (that game has lancer cavalry since 2001). But I've never really used them.

[Boshiken]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxVXRaePPNM

[Boshiken]

1. in the mid game - for their range 2 row attack
for raiding or combine them with mangudais
2. in the late game maybe change to knights
for their attack and armor upgrades

[DesertRose92]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-ekRigGhlY

When to use Steppe Lancers, and why they make Mongols one of the strongest Civs.

[Heimdall313]

Knights are bulkier and handle anything in melee range better than a Lancer. Knights are also better against Archers.
Steppe Lancers excel in the back row behind Hussar, Knights, and Camel, basically adding DPS behind the meat.
Small population games with generally small forces, you can micro a Hussar + Lancer + Mangudai raiding party to dive, snipe, and wipe villagers or critical units like siege. If you're not focused on doing pretty hard micro, Steppe Lancers are basically braindead and will suicide themselves into Knights and Arbalests. Don't let the HP bonus fool you, Mongol Steppe Lancers are *arguably* the best ones and they still get trashed by Knights and Archers, and even some medium cavalry units (Cataphracts and Tarkan) are trading uncomfortably well against them.

Lancers don't actually counter anything in a gold efficient manner themselves. Against Siege, Mangudai, Hussar, and Cavalier all do it better. Against Archers, Hussar and Cavalier do it better. Against Knights, you have Camels or more ideally, Pikes. Against Light Cavalry/Hussar, you have Knights, Camels, and Pikes doing better.
Lancers aren't an independent unit, but they're a great team unit. Mixed in with Hussar and Cavalier, you have more units engaged and dealing damage in a blob-smash (or mosh pit, whatever term you like) than your opponent does, so you can win a few "even" matchups that you normally wouldn't.

tl;dr use them to raid with Hussar and Mangudai (high micro, but absolute torture to be on the wrong end of) or send in a handful of them right behind a Cavalier push. Don't use them alone, don't put them in front, don't let them get hit.

[tiberiansun371alexw]

Originally posted by Heimdall313:

Steppe Lancers are basically braindead and will suicide themselves into Knights and Arbalests.

Arbalests? Now that's just sad. Even light cavalry can usually take on an imperial age archer unit, unless it's a unique unit that has an anti cavalry bonus.

[MassMetalizer]

I love using Steppe Lancers as the Tatars, I mix them and Keshiks into one group and they double up nicely.

[BirbNotBird]

Oh boi I love using Steppe in campaign.

A mix team of calvariers in front for soaking damage and Steppe is enough to make a watch tower crumble in few secs.

[jonoliveira12]

Steppe Lancers are better at focusing damage into a single spot due to 1 Range, but Knights are realistically better at everything else, and teh actual Gold-costed Cavalry unit you should really be making.

Steppe Lancers are a very awkward entry into the roster. They cannot be Trash units because tehy are far too strong, but because they can also nort be made better than Knights (the ONE unit the entire game is balanced around, so much so that it has 2 direct counters) without blowing any sense of balance apart; SLs are doomed to never be very good at much anything.

At best they are an early Castle Age super raider, but you should really transition to Knights as soon as possible, and then to Hussars and Heavy Cav Archers in Imperial, or Cavaliers into Paladin if you are Cumans.