Store Page
Age of Empires II: Definitive Edition
All Discussions Screenshots Artwork Broadcasts Videos News Guides Reviews

Age of Empires II: Definitive Edition

Store Page
View Stats:
Global Achievements
meleander Jul 28, 2023 @ 9:18am
Starting from 1000 should be changed
This is very easy.

You start with 1k elo and instantly you are getting trashed and lose. You don't feel like you are getting up, more like you're very bad and you need to fight to evel stay at the "beginner level", which 1k elo is, as beginners starts from there...

It also messes up to team games.

But this is something that makes people feel that they are bad at the game, instead of slowly pulling them up.

When playing SC2 they would throw you 5 matches to roughly see your level, it could be done here too
< >
Showing 1-15 of 26 comments
Quarantined_villager Jul 28, 2023 @ 9:32am 
In this game they throw you 10 matches to roughly see your level; after that you can say the Elo system works just fine in 1v1
#1
FloosWorld Jul 28, 2023 @ 9:33am 
The thing is - if you played 0 ranked games, you'll get matched up with a broader range of players anyway. In ranked 1v1s, you could theoratically get matched up against a 700 player for your first game as the game just quickly decides of matching you against players.
If you're a TG player and plan on playing 1v1s, the game uses your TG Elo as the starting point instead.

Also, as it's shown in the graph on https://ratings.aoe2.se/ - the top 50 % roughly formes around the starting value. If you e.g. lower the starting Elo from 1000 to 800, the 50 % will be eventually at 800.
#2
meleander Jul 28, 2023 @ 9:34am 
Originally posted by Quarantined_villager:
In this game they throw you 10 matches to roughly see your level; after that you can say the Elo system works just fine in 1v1

They don't. The way it should work is they throw you those matches before giving you elo, not after.
Last edited by meleander; Jul 28, 2023 @ 9:34am
#3
[T.R.] James Jul 28, 2023 @ 11:25am 
If you start to improve now instead of crying in a forum, you will probably get 1200 elo easy.
#4
Moist Butt Jul 28, 2023 @ 12:02pm 
Originally posted by meleander:
Originally posted by Quarantined_villager:
In this game they throw you 10 matches to roughly see your level; after that you can say the Elo system works just fine in 1v1

They don't. The way it should work is they throw you those matches before giving you elo, not after.

pretty sure it has placement matches unless they changed it which I can't think of a reason why. The elo showing is more of a design choice. For example, league used to have hidden elo during placement, but now it shows. It doesn't change the outcome objectively.
#5
meleander Jul 28, 2023 @ 4:28pm 
Originally posted by Moist Butt:
Originally posted by meleander:

They don't. The way it should work is they throw you those matches before giving you elo, not after.

pretty sure it has placement matches unless they changed it which I can't think of a reason why. The elo showing is more of a design choice. For example, league used to have hidden elo during placement, but now it shows. It doesn't change the outcome objectively.

I started from 1k elo, without any "check my level matches"
#6
Moist Butt Jul 28, 2023 @ 5:58pm 
Originally posted by meleander:
Originally posted by Moist Butt:

pretty sure it has placement matches unless they changed it which I can't think of a reason why. The elo showing is more of a design choice. For example, league used to have hidden elo during placement, but now it shows. It doesn't change the outcome objectively.

I started from 1k elo, without any "check my level matches"

So the problem is the starting elo or are you still denying that placement game exist in aoe2?

I mean its been awhile but i remember that it does have placement games. AOE2 is not like other modern competitive games where elo is soft reset every season. You do the placement and u never have to do it again unlike other games where u do it every season. I remember the first 10 games only elo was visible and position in ladder wasn't which suggest that they are placement games. I can't find anything concrete on it, but there are numerous posts online suggesting that placement game is a thing. I could confirm it by making a smurf and playing some ranked game but too lazy. Maybe someone could fact check this.

https://www.reddit.com/r/aoe2/comments/112ctev/how_effective_are_ranked_placement_games_a_data/

Aoe2 insight also seems to confirm what I said. For 1v1 the first data point on the graph is 1.3k and likewise TG is 1.4k for my account. If placement game didn't exist then they should have tracked my progression from the start i.e. 1k elo. Like I said I remember the first 10 games, position in ladder wasn't displayed and this checks out with the information of aoe2 insight.

Also in order for elo matchmaking to work you need some baseline elo otherwise how would they match u? All placement game does is you have a bigger elo gain/loss during those matches. This effectively help shifts you faster to your true elo. You are still gaining/losing elo during these games.
Last edited by Moist Butt; Jul 28, 2023 @ 6:36pm
#7
Percussigant Jul 28, 2023 @ 8:20pm 
There are placement matches in AoE2DE. The UI could maybe do a better job at making that clear, but they're there. Don't worry if you get trashed in your initial games, too - that's what happens to most people in most games. Keep playing and trying to improve and you will inevitably start climbing up.
#8
meleander Jul 29, 2023 @ 2:13am 
No, guys, you don't understand. What I meant is, first you are being put to like 5 matches, and only after that your elo is decided. So if you're a good player, you go straight to like 1200 elo, but if you're bad you start climbing from 732 or something. The thing is, everyone start from 1k elo.

In SC2 you didn't get any indication of where you are before you started the matches.

This is a problem as it makes psychologically push people into thinking, that they are bad in this game, because they need to lost a lot before finding their elo.
#9
Kampfschwein Fjonda Jul 29, 2023 @ 3:38am 
A good elo system is not defined after 5 matches but where you stand after 100 matches.
And in that regard the double elo, namely team elo is as rotten as Donald Trump.
#10
meleander Jul 29, 2023 @ 9:03am 
Originally posted by Fjonda:
A good elo system is not defined after 5 matches but where you stand after 100 matches.
And in that regard the double elo, namely team elo is as rotten as Donald Trump.

For some people 100 games can be their whole career in AOE2, so yeah, no.

5 games are good enough. It worked for SC2 very well.
#11
Moist Butt Jul 29, 2023 @ 12:55pm 
Originally posted by meleander:
No, guys, you don't understand. What I meant is, first you are being put to like 5 matches, and only after that your elo is decided. So if you're a good player, you go straight to like 1200 elo, but if you're bad you start climbing from 732 or something. The thing is, everyone start from 1k elo.

In SC2 you didn't get any indication of where you are before you started the matches.

This is a problem as it makes psychologically push people into thinking, that they are bad in this game, because they need to lost a lot before finding their elo.

maybe I am still not getting it. You only lose a lot if you aren't good at the game. If I made a new acc and started from 1k again I did argue my chances of winning my first few games are quite high. Similarly if I was below avg and let's assume my rating was 800 elo then I would expect to lose more games. I don't see how we can give more wins to these ppl because someone have to take the L in matchmaking. You can't increase the overall winrate if that makes sense.

I guess you can lower the starting elo (disagree) so players that are doing placement win more, but then it doesn't do anything in the long as Floos has explained.
Last edited by Moist Butt; Jul 29, 2023 @ 12:57pm
#12
James3157 Jul 29, 2023 @ 2:56pm 
Originally posted by Fjonda:
A good elo system is not defined after 5 matches but where you stand after 100 matches.
And in that regard the double elo, namely team elo is as rotten as Donald Trump.

Contrary to The SIms 4 (which focuses very much so on openly supporting the LGBT+ community despite it being a very expensive game as well), the Age of Empires series is not really as much about politics as The Sims 4. Instead, it is a lot more about strategy, history lessons, and economy. Is their a player on multiplayer "specifically" named Donald Trump or Joe Biden? Their might be, but the chances of seeing a random player specifically named Joe Biden or Donald Trump on multiplayer are only slim at best and the entire series in general (including even AoE III: DE) does not really relate in any way to modern day politics.

Also, I have noob question. What is elo? I have seen this mentioned many times on Steam, but I do not even know what elo is.
Last edited by James3157; Jul 29, 2023 @ 3:07pm
#13
AgentFlea Jul 29, 2023 @ 9:33pm 
Originally posted by cM´ | Kama Sutra:
If you start to improve now instead of crying in a forum, you will probably get 1200 elo easy.

What a useless post filled with self-hate. lol
#14
True Beard Jul 29, 2023 @ 10:06pm 
Originally posted by James3157:
Also, I have noob question. What is elo? I have seen this mentioned many times on Steam, but I do not even know what elo is.
It's the online ranked rating system. Named after Arpad Elo, the inventor of it. Everyone refers to it as "your Elo."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system

I think it works great and have no complaints really. After the first 10 games you're matched up with people of a similar Elo (or rating.) 10 games is a a good chunk of time and seems like a lot, but it may be the ideal number for truly determining where you are in terms of skill. Maybe it could be tweaked, I don't know.

Come online and find out, James. Dip your toes in! The water is fine :)
#15
< >
Showing 1-15 of 26 comments
Per page: 1530 50

Age of Empires II: Definitive Edition > General Discussions > Topic Details
Date Posted: Jul 28, 2023 @ 9:18am
Posts: 26

Discussions Rules and Guidelines