"Auto-Economy" for PC

[Ryou]

Hey y'all, so, I've been an avid fan of the franchise for years, like most I presume, but the reason I never got into it competitively was because I simply get too stressed out in the lategame. Between managing units, upgrades and economy, something always gets left behind. It's why I almost exclusively play rush play styles in an effort to avoid getting to the lategame.

Now, I just saw the video of Spirit of the Law reviewing the XBOX version and I have to admit, their new "Auto-Economy" solution seems perfect for the lategame. Early game I can handle, but if I had an AI assist me in the lategame, even if it's suboptimal, I think I could genuinely enjoy this game again.

What are your thoughts on this?

[Whakahoatanga]

Not a fan of automation, but as a lobby option which remains optional why not.

Would probably be disabled by default for multiplayer quick matches because it takes away skill.

[Thor II]

I knew there was a catch somewhere. I knew it was impossible to make a Console (Control) RTS without losing most of the original game.

I haven't seen anything about this new version of AOE II yet, but I wonder if it isn't already closer to an RTT than an RTS.

[Ryou]

Originally posted by Whakahoatanga:

Not a fan of automation, but as a lobby option which remains optional why not.

Would probably be disabled by default for multiplayer quick matches because it takes away skill.

And what's wrong with that? I don't see the issue, professional players can play on an equal level, it just evens the playing field. And it'd probably get a lot more people interested in the game. I don't know, it's just my personal opinion as someone who really sucks at managing 100 villagers in the lategame

[Average Jew]

Originally posted by Thor II:

I knew there was a catch somewhere. I knew it was impossible to make a Console (Control) RTS without losing most of the original game.

I haven't seen anything about this new version of AOE II yet, but I wonder if it isn't already closer to an RTT than an RTS.

I normally play on PC gamepass but checked it out on Xbox yesterday, you definitely aren't "losing most of the original game". Honestly it was nice to not have to constantly assign villagers.

[Crossil]

I'm personally not a fan of backporting console QoL features that exist solely because console is the wrong platform to have an RTS on.

Originally posted by Ryou:

I don't see the issue, professional players can play on an equal level, it just evens the playing field.

No, it doesn't even the playing field, at least not how you imagine it.

Professional players have no use for it, as it takes away the build orders as none of the automation is optimized. And the general playerbase is simply have a part automized to have the unit micro matter more, which I'm not sure they even do to begin with.

And even then, you'll have severe issues with getting raided the moment you meet someone competent, because the AI doesn't realize that it's getting raided so it keeps feeding the villagers to the raiding party. Even worse if the AI sends your villagers somewhere away from you base to get gold/stone and you don't even realize it until they are already dead.

The only thing it would do is shift the elo bar a bit, settling on some level, where the exact same crowd will end up at. Utterly worthless otherwise, if not outright self-desctructive. The automation is not that impressive outside of very casual gameplay, which isn't gonna get you very far in any real sense, be it campaign or multiplayer.....

I guess there's some form of enjoyment in not having to eco, but I don't see much changing aside from really casual stuff.

I would really only accept a togglable option.

[Quarantined_villager]

It is fine, let's make it happen
It would bring more people to the game

[KingCoward]

Seems nice, i like these rts games however always ended up getting confused after the initial start just by the sheer amount of stuff you gotta keep track of which all makes it a bit too stressy for my taste, would be nice to have a more relaxed gameplay with such an option.

[Zeev]

Originally posted by Crossil:

I'm personally not a fan of backporting console QoL features that exist solely because console is the wrong platform to have an RTS on.

Who are you to decide what is wrong and right for an RTS genre?
Let other people have fun on different platforms.

[Curithane]

Originally posted by Whakahoatanga:

Not a fan of automation, but as a lobby option which remains optional why not.

Would probably be disabled by default for multiplayer quick matches because it takes away skill.

From what I have heard XBox and PC will be Crossplay able. Do you think that a XBox Player could keep up with a GOOD PC Player?
I think this mechanic a tool to make XBox users Crossplay compatible with PC Gamers. Otherwise, why do it?

For me (after 12 Ranked Matches), a 700 ELO Player I would very much like a Build Order Help.
That said, my Goal was never to become Top Tier or anything, since I still wanna enjoy the Game and not learn several dozen Hotkeys etc. Having one for all my TCs is enough in my Book, so I can reduce Idle time.

[Thor II]

Originally posted by Zeev:

Originally posted by Crossil:

I'm personally not a fan of backporting console QoL features that exist solely because console is the wrong platform to have an RTS on.

Who are you to decide what is wrong and right for an RTS genre?
Let other people have fun on different platforms.

Well, it's kind of Age of Empires that defined what's right and what's wrong for the RTS genre, it always has been.

And by Age of Empires, I meant also us, the players

[[✚] MissWheems]

From the 3rd best Console player according to Elo for Xbox, Their PC elo would be around then 500-600 mark. Auto economy is really weak

[Vonklyce]

Originally posted by Thor II:

Originally posted by Zeev:

Who are you to decide what is wrong and right for an RTS genre?
Let other people have fun on different platforms.

Well, it's kind of Age of Empires that defined what's right and what's wrong for the RTS genre, it always has been.

And by Age of Empires, I meant also us, the players

Age of Empires (1997) came after Warcraft 2 (1995) and Command & Conquer (1995), and both of these games had "automated" resource-gatherers such as the harvest trucks from C&C and peons from Warcraft 2 collecting gold from mines without being exposed.
Both these games allowed your workers to do their jobs without the need to babysit them so you could focus your attention on the interesting part of the game, the combat.

So judging by that logic, these were the ones who defined what is right for RTS and AoE was the wrong one trying to be different, and TBH villagers are the worst part of this game, the unnecessary micromanagement and slow paced start is pretty much what makes most news players give up on this game.

Imagine waiting several minutes to find a match and then the game ends before anything interesting happens because one of the players decides to rush while the other was still trying to build up their economy. Both wasted their times and spent more minutes waiting than actually playing it.

[Flakstruk]

Auto scout was popular. Dont see why auto econonmy wont be the same. You could even have a auto economy game mode where you exclusively build military units and everything economy wise is automated from DA.

Dont judge what others find fun is my advice.

[Krosis Priest]

Originally posted by Vonklyce:

So judging by that logic, these were the ones who defined what is right for RTS and AoE was the wrong one trying to be different, and TBH villagers are the worst part of this game, the unnecessary micromanagement and slow paced start is pretty much what makes most news players give up on this game.

The reason why AoE arguably surpassed them or at least found its own niche where it's unbeatable is because it's slower and there's actual time for that micromanagement. I loved both Warcraft and C&C games but there micro was pretty much fiction besides a few slower and more subtle missions. Thank gods for the slow start in AoE and there's more than enough of a deluge of games now where you need to faceroll the keyboard since minute 1, I like my games with some sense of progression.

Doesn't mean that I'm against an auto-economy option because options are cool and everything that makes the game more accessible to not only sweaty tryhards is awesome, but "to make AoE better we should make it less AoE and more like a generic modern game" is a very bad approach.

Originally posted by Crossil:

And even then, you'll have severe issues with getting raided the moment you meet someone competent, because the AI doesn't realize that it's getting raided so it keeps feeding the villagers to the raiding party. Even worse if the AI sends your villagers somewhere away from you base to get gold/stone and you don't even realize it until they are already dead.

That's the point though and how any "training wheels" kind of systems should work. I think a decent comparison is racing games, where all the driving assists and automatic transmission make it much easier for a beginner, but they are set up in a way that you cannot reach the speed and efficiency as when you drive well with everything manual. It should make things easier to an extent, but also have obvious drawbacks so there is a reason to switch to manual management eventually. (And AoE is complex enough that there will always be plenty of reasons to do things manually rather than trust AI)

[loinbread]

If it makes the game more playable on a gamepad, give it to me so I can Steam Deck it in bed lol