Infantry in this game is kinda weak ?

[Enjoyer]

My favourite type of characets/units in games always was slow moving strong tanky units so when i started playing the game i hoped to find some civ that would fit that cryteria but in this game that seems not not be a case as slow infantry is complete a** with many reasons being for that

They are bad at killing villagers and their stats are too low to compensate for it
The meta in this game is crossbowmen / knights which are gods at raiding and killing villagers/stoping production which is the winning ♥♥♥ and most effective way to end the game, thats why you see those 2 in pro/ranked games non stop with cav civs holding the best win rates /stats in the game.
Infantry is way too slow/dont have range for that so they get some funny bonus against buildings but destroying building is worth nothing compared to the value you get from killing villagers that can just run away from inf with wheelbarrow techs buildings are cheap and easily replaceable and infantry is not even good at destroying buildings that would be worth it (castles) cuz of their low low pierce armor they just get rekt when they get in range
the only use where that slow ass infantry may come in handy is in early feudal age rushes that you can rarely see cuz at this point the resources gathered are not in that big of a numbers .

literally 80 % of game units counter infantry including other infantry
yes the only use for slow infantry in this game to counter other infantry
they just simply have way more hard counters than archers or horse units and their counters are way more punishing because archer or horse units which can avoid taking bad trades when abusing range/movement speed horse and crossbowmen counters are lighter and managable meanwhile everything in the game dunks on slow infantry

The fix for this would be either :upgrades to slow infantry should be cheaper as they are basically just a counter unit and you never will really commit to massing them like archers or knights because infantry doesnt work on its own you need alot of other units to back them up so you get much less value out of those upgrades that in archer/horse cases transistion of those units just cost too much

or they should get ranged armor so they actually could be decent at destroying castles which hold important positions similiar to huskarls

or you could make them faster but that would just ruin their identity :0

This post is about slow infantry if you didnt notice it yet , im not including some fast moving infantry units like berserk /some unique units or substitutes for stable units like in aztecs case that actually have some use cuz they raid and chase villagers down

[Marco]

slayeerpl a écrit :

man i love people that just can't read with understanding at all OR dont read the post at all and just come up with the dumbest responses/takes

no i dont wan't ultimate broken unit thats good at everything
but infantry in this game just seems to be poorly balanced and game favours other units . compare it to warcraft 3 infantry
where infantry is actually viable option that can stand on its own and is backbone of an army

footmen , grunts , Druids , mountain giants , abominations,taurens, all those slow infantry units are somehow made to work well in that game due to having some good special abilities with decent stats and probably due to the fact in that game destoying buildings is more important than chasing villagers .all of them can be used often in army compositions without too much investment
unlike in this game where slow infantry just gets rolled by 90 % of the units and are pretty crappy D tier units which is just sad

There is 1 good kinda infantry unit in the game that gets a pass i guess its
urumi swordsman but thats pretty much it they made this unit to be strong and viable to sell the dlc probably his passive splash seems very good and makes him viable in more scenarios than most of the slow infantry needs some passives or bebut rest of the slow infantry look neglected and lack something.

nvm hes not actually slow he also has 1.05 movement Speed XD
so yes all slow infantry is ass in this game

Let alone that I'm bad at reading, you didn't really specify in the first post that you were talking about Teutonic Knights, then maybe rephrase a bit what were you trying to say.

From the first post: infantry bad at killing villagers and stats too low to compensate it --> If you are talking about TKs, this is just false. A villager or a monk dies in 2 hits if attacked by a TK. Maybe you were trying to say they are too slow to chase villagers? Use another unit. But you don't like cavalry or archers...
If you were talking about Dark Age's militias, for early rushes you need many of them (it is not a unit for rushing, though), it's obvious it is weak since you have no upgrades in that era.

Then: crossbowmen and knights are the best against villagers --> You know, mounted men are faster than afoot men. Archers can shoot from a distance, so they don't need to chase... I don't get your point here: why would you complain about this?

Still 1st post: infantry gets ridiculous bonuses against buildings but can be easily
destroyed by castles --> Castles have been added in AOE2 because AOE1 lacked them. They are there to make a siege more difficult and can also kill paladins, not just infantry. And I was wondering why in the world would you attack a castle with normal infantry/Teutonic Knight when you have rams, bombards (and cannon galleons for coastal castles), trebuchets and even petards (if you can manage them) for that purpose. Huns also have Tarkans, but you will need many of them to demolish a castle.

80% of units can counter infantry --> This is because the middle ages and the imperial age were the time of knights and gunpowder. It's obvious they can counter infantry. However, it doesn't mean that champions, halberdiers and Teutonic Knights are totally useless. A fully upgraded halberdier can still kill a cavalry archer and a Mangudai in just one hit if he manages somehow to reach him in the middle of a battle. A Teutonic Knight also will slaughter foot and cavalry archers if he catches them. All infantry units are good at destroying siege weapons once they touch them, they are just weak at ranged attacks which I repeat is obvious and coherent to what the middle ages have been. However, as another person wrote above, on open maps like Arabia you want to use the proper units instead of just focusing into slow infantry.
This game is not about the 300 Spartan hoplites inflicting consistent losses to an army of 20000 Persian soldiers.

Anyway, stating that in AOE2 you win only by using cavalry + archers is false, otherwise infantry civilizations from South America wouldn't exist as well as Goths which have cheaper infantry and no paladin. Plus, like others said, you counter heavy cavalry with pikemen/halberdiers or camels and archers with skirmishers (oops, they are not melee infantry) or some anti-archer infantry unique units (why not use another civilization then?). Sounds like a skill issue because you said you only like slow infantry and that's what you want to use. Get good at using all units or just play another game if this one is not for you. In the end, you literally complained about infantry not being OP like in other games, which means complaining about nothing.

Last, but not least: you said in other games destroying buildings is more important than killing villagers. Well, but this is Age of Empires 2, so it's the opposite: killing villagers is more important than destroying buildings because you choke enemy's economy, that's what a siege is. Once they run out of resources, military buildings are useless. For towers and castles, you still have trebuchets.

[Enjoyer]

Marco of The S.o.D. a écrit :

]
Let alone that I'm bad at reading, you didn't really specify in the first post that you were talking about Teutonic Knights, then maybe rephrase a bit what were you trying to say.

You are either trolling or still can't read with understanding at all i specified many times im talking about slow infantry and its not only about tk but also whole men at arms line . and few other slow infantry

From the first post: infantry bad at killing villagers and stats too low to compensate it --> If you are talking about TKs, this is just false. A villager or a monk dies in 2 hits if attacked by a TK. Maybe you were trying to say they are too slow to chase villagers? Use another unit. But you don't like cavalry or archers...
If you were talking about Dark Age's militias, for early rushes you need many of them (it is not a unit for rushing, though), it's obvious it is weak since you have no upgrades in that era.

Yes stats are still too low who cares if villagers dies in 2 hits if you Can't inflict the damage idk what you can't understand about simple concepts
You can have 1000000 damage but whats the point if you have 0% hit chance
You can be smartest guy alive ♥♥♥♥♥♥ 50000 iq but whats the point if you are born if coma etc Teutonic knight is low tier unit and low tier units tend to get BUFFED while OP units tend to get NERFED but you simply can't grasp that concept i guess and any thinking that should occur in your brain is not here you just can't accept that some units are weak and could use some help
"just use another unit after you spend many resources on upgrades" -_- how about not making tk or men at arms at all cuz hes a pointless unit in most of the games ? JUST XD USE OTHER UNITS BRUH

Then: crossbowmen and knights are the best against villagers --> You know, mounted men are faster than afoot men. Archers can shoot from a distance, so they don't need to chase... I don't get your point here: why would you complain about this?

Well no ♥♥♥♥ man O_O The point is that this makes those unit x10 better than slow infantry as they are much better at doing most things that win you game they also are just simply way better units infantry is overpriced and too weak for what they offer making them ♥♥♥♥ units which shouldnt be a thing in a game that already suffers from lack of units if you dont tak.

Still 1st post: infantry gets ridiculous bonuses against buildings but can be easily
destroyed by castles --> Castles have been added in AOE2 because AOE1 lacked them. They are there to make a siege more difficult and can also kill paladins, not just infantry. And I was wondering why in the world would you attack a castle with normal infantry/Teutonic Knight when you have rams, bombards (and cannon galleons for coastal castles), trebuchets and even petards (if you can manage them) for that purpose. Huns also have Tarkans, but you will need many of them to demolish a castle.

Already did talk about it .... Damage against building is a joke and destroying buildings is much less worth than killling villagers so this bonus is garbanzo and not enough to make them work. OH NOOO YOU DESTROYED MY BARRACKS THAT COST ME 175 WOOD WHAT IM GONNA DOO ???? ah nvm i can just put a new one in few seconds with villagers
Meanwhile killing 10 villagers cost you like 1000 resources cuz you both have to buy villagers back + you lose production time
That bonus against buildings is not high enough to make slow ass infantry to compete in any way with other raiding units


80% of units can counter infantry --> This is because the middle ages and the imperial age were the time of knights and gunpowder. It's obvious they can counter infantry. However, it doesn't mean that champions, halberdiers and Teutonic Knights are totally useless. A fully upgraded halberdier can still kill a cavalry archer and a Mangudai in just one hit if he manages somehow to reach him in the middle of a battle. A Teutonic Knight also will slaughter foot and cavalry archers if he catches them. All infantry units are good at destroying siege weapons once they touch them, they are just weak at ranged attacks which I repeat is obvious and coherent to what the middle ages have been. However, as another person wrote above, on open maps like Arabia you want to use the proper units instead of just focusing into slow infantry.
This game is not about the 300 Spartans hoplites inflicting consistent losses to an army of 20000 Persian soldiers.

Yes they are not totally useless they have some very moments where they can do something but opting for them is not optimal they low tier unit like other slow infantry
"A Teutonic Knight also will slaughter foot and cavalry archers if he catches them" what is even that argument ? thats just dumb IF HE catches them omegalul just catch them thats will happen bro trust me nothing wrong with the fact that 80 % of game units counter infantry while infantry is complete garbanzo in terms of stats/abilities


Anyway, stating that in AOE2 you win only by using cavalry + archers is false, otherwise infantry civilizations from South America wouldn't exist as well as Goths which have cheaper infantry and no paladin. Plus, like others said, you counter heavy cavalry with pikemen/halberdiers or camels and archers with skirmishers (oops, they are not melee infantry) or some anti-archer infantry unique units (why not use another civilization then?). Sounds like a skill issue because you said you only like slow infantry and that's what you want to use. Get good at using all units or just play another game if this one is not for you. In the end, you literally complained about infantry not being OP like in other games, which means complaining about nothing.

Also already talked about it zzz ..... META IS CAVALRY OR ARCHER
ALL CAVALRY CIVS HAVE HIGHEST WIN RATES WITH PICK RATES JUST LOOK UP THE STATS . South america civilization units are not rly infantry they are fast moving substitute for stable units they fit the same role at raiding with mach 10 speeds
Goths are being carried by insane late game civ bonus + huskarl which is basically melee skirmisher that can be paired with halbs but hes also and hes not that slow of a unit with 1.05 ms + so hes not the unit im talking about as i specified im talking about slow infantry so yes you to make infantry viable you need alot of bonuses and alot of stats to make them work just like in Huskarl case which is
1.cheap
2. has very good stats with high pierce armor high movement speed
3 MOST IMPORTANT ARGUMENT FOR HIM .due to being skirmisher counters most range units DOESN'T suffer from typical infantry counters which is my main problem with infantry in this game they get countered by 80 % of units while also not getting anything out of it
4.easy to mass due to great techs for him
so yeah why you even huskarl to tk and other slow ass useless infantry

Yes im kinda bad at micro too lazy to do it and this game is 99 % about execution of micro fast advancing ages and managing eco and like 1 % strategy but that has nothing to do with it ?
Slow infantry actually require more thinking and managing than Paladin spam so whats your point ? Paladin spam civs like franks are literally no brain easiest ♥♥♥♥ in the game with highest win rate due to it so here your dumb point falls apart cuz with paladin spam you need to think less about managin you army , where you go , what you do as they are good at everything and fast , with infantry you have to commit hard to what you do and if you make a bad choice you get punished
infantry being less micro demanding than crossbowmen is not an excuse to make them so weak in the game
"you literally complained about infantry not being OP like in other games, which means complaining about nothing." ah yes totally infantry is op in other games its not like infantry is just a joke in this game
you just seem like salty pro gamer that wants meta to fit only your playstyle not acknowledging that some people might wanna enjoy something else and try different approaches
Like you have roles in games Tanks ,juggernauts,bruisers ,assasins dps in moba for example
Tanks dont take a lot of micro skill but still you need to think probably more than dps and assasins how you wanna approach the fight

Last, but not least: you said in other games destroying buildings is more important than killing villagers. Well, but this is Age of Empires 2, so it's the opposite: killing villagers is more important than destroying buildings because you choke enemy's economy, that's what a siege is. Once they run out of resources, military buildings are useless. For towers and castles, you still have trebuchets.

thanks for advice i never used trebutchets or siegie in my life gonna try next time

[Krosis Priest]

Venator a écrit :

Infantry have their role in the game, i dont think you need to buff it. There is civs that can do a lot with it, like goth, slavs, teutons, poles malay etc. Yes, its not so strong as archers\knights but it still can be usefull in some scenarios. And if you buff it you would need to change a lot in the game balance. Like really A LOT. Otherwise cis with good infantry bonus would just be too op. Goth already cant be stopped in lategame by most of the civs, imagine if you buff their infantry.

I mean buffing Militia-line first and maybe some of the unique infantry that isn't very powerful right now - and it's usually the ones that are slower than cavalry. Yeah, Huskarls and such are terrifying enough as they are, but they're pretty much cavalry on foot.

[Doctor Teo]

I'm with you on this one. I always felt like infantry, especially the militia line, didn't have a clear strength. Don't get me wrong, infantry are useful sometimes, but usually as a counter or a surprise tech switch rather than Plan A.

Frankly, what really kills me is that infantry don't beat cavalry and can't harass. Ironically, the spearman line feels like a better infantry unit than militia, because they're cheap, win versus cav and lose to archers like you'd expect them to.

Never mind actually doing damage with infantry like militia. Since infantry can't chase vills, can't fire over forests to hit a woodline, and buildings in this game have so much health that even their bonus damage does nothing compared to vill repair, they don't have the ability to deal damage in feudal unless going for the rare MaA+Skirm opening.

This is not to say infantry is completely useless -- again, as counters or surprise tech switches, they can be really strong. But the infantry that do see play are either fast infantry like Shotel Warriors and Berserkers who borrow the role of what cavalry does without the weakness to spears, or infantry that tip the combat triangle like Huskarl and Sergeants thanks to their high pierce resist.

I'm sure if you fiddled with the numbers, you could make infantry good without necessarily fixing these weaknesses -- imagine Supplies just being free in Feudal, MaA having an extra 20 health, Longsword upgrade being a pitiful 100/50, and slow unique infantry like Teutons or Samurai having their gold cost cut in half. They'd still have the same weaknesses, but perhaps they could be a person's Plan A more of the time -- and even then, they probably wouldn't be as big of a build priority as Mangudai and other top tier units.

[anglerman]

I believe to balance it out, swordsmen upgrades should be researched way faster and their training speed should be increased as well so you can mass them more easily than archers with the same amount of production buildings.

But the pike line is good as it is. If anything I'd just give the last inf Armor upgrade a +1 to pierce armor in addition to its current effects.

[Doctor Teo]

anglerman a écrit :

I believe to balance it out, swordsmen upgrades should be researched way faster and their training speed should be increased as well so you can mass them more easily than archers with the same amount of production buildings.

Also decent possibilities.

I always thought the reason there were even militia-line upgrades in the first place was a way to time-gate the appearance of Man at Arms and Longswords. Yet not only are they so weak that there's no need to add an extra cost to them, but their competition does not suffer from the same restraints: you need MaA for your infantry to function in feudal age, but archers and scouts are available right out of the gate (and you probably need an archery range or stable to advance anyways), and you need the Longsword upgrade for your infantry to function in castle age, but knights can be produced immediately with no research -- in fact, you can start building the stables to produce more while you're still aging up.

Imo, there's at least a dozen ways you could crank up the stats on militia-line and it still wouldn't be broken. Research cost could be one of them -- have both Supplies and MaA cost a pittance, 50 food, 25 gold, but take a minute to research, delaying the time it takes to make a single-racks push. Do the same for Longsword -- 50/50, an absolute pittance, but 1.5 minutes of research, so there's a decent delay between hitting castle and all leftover MaA turning into Longswords (like there currently is for Crossbows+Bodkin Arrow), but that it kind of just happens as a matter of course.

[Marco]

slayeerpl a écrit :

You are either trolling or still can't read with understanding at all i specified many times im talking about slow infantry and its not only about tk but also whole men at arms line . and few other slow infantry

Yes stats are still too low who cares if villagers dies in 2 hits if you Can't inflict the damage idk what you can't understand about simple concepts
You can have 1000000 damage but whats the point if you have 0% hit chance
You can be smartest guy alive ♥♥♥♥♥♥ 50000 iq but whats the point if you are born if coma etc Teutonic knight is low tier unit and low tier units tend to get BUFFED while OP units tend to get NERFED but you simply can't grasp that concept i guess and any thinking that should occur in your brain is not here you just can't accept that some units are weak and could use some help
-_- how about not making tk or men at arms at all cuz hes a pointless unit in most of the games ? JUST XD USE OTHER UNITS BRUH

Well no ♥♥♥♥ man O_O The point is that this makes those unit x10 better than slow infantry as they are much better at doing most things that win you game they also are just simply way better units infantry is overpriced and too weak for what they offer making them ♥♥♥♥ units which shouldnt be a thing in a game that already suffers from lack of units if you dont tak.

Already did talk about it .... Damage against building is a joke and destroying buildings is much less worth than killling villagers so this bonus is garbanzo and not enough to make them work. OH NOOO YOU DESTROYED MY BARRACKS THAT COST ME 175 WOOD WHAT IM GONNA DOO ???? ah nvm i can just put a new one in few seconds with villagers
Meanwhile killing 10 villagers cost you like 1000 resources cuz you both have to buy villagers back + you lose production time
That bonus against buildings is not high enough to make slow ass infantry to compete in any way with other raiding units

Yes they are not totally useless they have some very moments where they can do something but opting for them is not optimal they low tier unit like other slow infantry
"A Teutonic Knight also will slaughter foot and cavalry archers if he catches them" what is even that argument ? thats just dumb IF HE catches them omegalul just catch them thats will happen bro trust me nothing wrong with the fact that 80 % of game units counter infantry while infantry is complete garbanzo in terms of stats/abilities

Also already talked about it zzz ..... META IS CAVALRY OR ARCHER
ALL CAVALRY CIVS HAVE HIGHEST WIN RATES WITH PICK RATES JUST LOOK UP THE STATS . South america civilization units are not rly infantry they are fast moving substitute for stable units they fit the same role at raiding with mach 10 speeds
Goths are being carried by insane late game civ bonus + huskarl which is basically melee skirmisher that can be paired with halbs but hes also and hes not that slow of a unit with 1.05 ms + so hes not the unit im talking about as i specified im talking about slow infantry so yes you to make infantry viable you need alot of bonuses and alot of stats to make them work just like in Huskarl case which is
1.cheap
2. has very good stats with high pierce armor high movement speed
3 MOST IMPORTANT ARGUMENT FOR HIM .due to being skirmisher counters most range units DOESN'T suffer from typical infantry counters which is my main problem with infantry in this game they get countered by 80 % of units while also not getting anything out of it
4.easy to mass due to great techs for him
so yeah why you even huskarl to tk and other slow ass useless infantry

Yes im kinda bad at micro too lazy to do it and this game is 99 % about execution of micro fast advancing ages and managing eco and like 1 % strategy but that has nothing to do with it ?
Slow infantry actually require more thinking and managing than Paladin spam so whats your point ? Paladin spam civs like franks are literally no brain easiest ♥♥♥♥ in the game with highest win rate due to it so here your dumb point falls apart cuz with paladin spam you need to think less about managin you army , where you go , what you do as they are good at everything and fast , with infantry you have to commit hard to what you do and if you make a bad choice you get punished
infantry being less micro demanding than crossbowmen is not an excuse to make them so weak in the game

ah yes totally infantry is op in other games its not like infantry is just a joke in this game
you just seem like salty pro gamer that wants meta to fit only your playstyle not acknowledging that some people might wanna enjoy something else and try different approaches
Like you have roles in games Tanks ,juggernauts,bruisers ,assasins dps in moba for example
Tanks dont take a lot of micro skill but still you need to think probably more than dps and assasins how you wanna approach the fight

thanks for advice i never used trebutchets or siegie in my life gonna try next time

You just said you are too lazy to micro and to learn how to use infantry, then open a thread complaining that militia-line (which is NOT as slow as Teutonic Knights) is too weak at a distance despite others suggested you to garrison swordsmen inside rams or siege towers and the troll is ME???

You are like that other guy who complained 2 months ago that monks do not heal garrisoned units when they are garrisoned too so it was unacceptable and they should do... Thus, you still prove my point that such threads are useless: while it is okay to dislike infantry in this game, it is not to say it objectively sucks like it was Bible just because you are not good at it. You just don't like how infantry works here, period.

Download Advanced Genie 3 and create a mod which makes militia-line and Teutonic Knights faster, with more pierce armor and with ranged attack like steppe lancers or Mamelukes, lol. You'll fix your 0% possibilities of hitting anything.

And no: I'm not a multiplayer pro. I'm an average single player gamer who played classic version (AoK + Conquerors) and had manual of it.

[Enjoyer]

Marco of The S.o.D. a écrit :

slayeerpl a écrit :

You are either trolling or still can't read with understanding at all i specified many times im talking about slow infantry and its not only about tk but also whole men at arms line . and few other slow infantry

Yes stats are still too low who cares if villagers dies in 2 hits if you Can't inflict the damage idk what you can't understand about simple concepts
You can have 1000000 damage but whats the point if you have 0% hit chance
You can be smartest guy alive ♥♥♥♥♥♥ 50000 iq but whats the point if you are born if coma etc Teutonic knight is low tier unit and low tier units tend to get BUFFED while OP units tend to get NERFED but you simply can't grasp that concept i guess and any thinking that should occur in your brain is not here you just can't accept that some units are weak and could use some help
-_- how about not making tk or men at arms at all cuz hes a pointless unit in most of the games ? JUST XD USE OTHER UNITS BRUH

Well no ♥♥♥♥ man O_O The point is that this makes those unit x10 better than slow infantry as they are much better at doing most things that win you game they also are just simply way better units infantry is overpriced and too weak for what they offer making them ♥♥♥♥ units which shouldnt be a thing in a game that already suffers from lack of units if you dont tak.

Already did talk about it .... Damage against building is a joke and destroying buildings is much less worth than killling villagers so this bonus is garbanzo and not enough to make them work. OH NOOO YOU DESTROYED MY BARRACKS THAT COST ME 175 WOOD WHAT IM GONNA DOO ???? ah nvm i can just put a new one in few seconds with villagers
Meanwhile killing 10 villagers cost you like 1000 resources cuz you both have to buy villagers back + you lose production time
That bonus against buildings is not high enough to make slow ass infantry to compete in any way with other raiding units

Yes they are not totally useless they have some very moments where they can do something but opting for them is not optimal they low tier unit like other slow infantry
"A Teutonic Knight also will slaughter foot and cavalry archers if he catches them" what is even that argument ? thats just dumb IF HE catches them omegalul just catch them thats will happen bro trust me nothing wrong with the fact that 80 % of game units counter infantry while infantry is complete garbanzo in terms of stats/abilities

Also already talked about it zzz ..... META IS CAVALRY OR ARCHER
ALL CAVALRY CIVS HAVE HIGHEST WIN RATES WITH PICK RATES JUST LOOK UP THE STATS . South america civilization units are not rly infantry they are fast moving substitute for stable units they fit the same role at raiding with mach 10 speeds
Goths are being carried by insane late game civ bonus + huskarl which is basically melee skirmisher that can be paired with halbs but hes also and hes not that slow of a unit with 1.05 ms + so hes not the unit im talking about as i specified im talking about slow infantry so yes you to make infantry viable you need alot of bonuses and alot of stats to make them work just like in Huskarl case which is
1.cheap
2. has very good stats with high pierce armor high movement speed
3 MOST IMPORTANT ARGUMENT FOR HIM .due to being skirmisher counters most range units DOESN'T suffer from typical infantry counters which is my main problem with infantry in this game they get countered by 80 % of units while also not getting anything out of it
4.easy to mass due to great techs for him
so yeah why you even huskarl to tk and other slow ass useless infantry

Yes im kinda bad at micro too lazy to do it and this game is 99 % about execution of micro fast advancing ages and managing eco and like 1 % strategy but that has nothing to do with it ?
Slow infantry actually require more thinking and managing than Paladin spam so whats your point ? Paladin spam civs like franks are literally no brain easiest ♥♥♥♥ in the game with highest win rate due to it so here your dumb point falls apart cuz with paladin spam you need to think less about managin you army , where you go , what you do as they are good at everything and fast , with infantry you have to commit hard to what you do and if you make a bad choice you get punished
infantry being less micro demanding than crossbowmen is not an excuse to make them so weak in the game

ah yes totally infantry is op in other games its not like infantry is just a joke in this game
you just seem like salty pro gamer that wants meta to fit only your playstyle not acknowledging that some people might wanna enjoy something else and try different approaches
Like you have roles in games Tanks ,juggernauts,bruisers ,assasins dps in moba for example
Tanks dont take a lot of micro skill but still you need to think probably more than dps and assasins how you wanna approach the fight

thanks for advice i never used trebutchets or siegie in my life gonna try next time

You just said you are too lazy to micro and to learn how to use infantry, then open a thread complaining that militia-line (which is NOT as slow as Teutonic Knights) is too weak at a distance despite others suggested you to garrison swordsmen inside rams or siege towers and the troll is ME???

You are like that other guy who complained 2 months ago that monks do not heal garrisoned units when they are garrisoned too so it was unacceptable and they should do... Thus, you still prove my point that such threads are useless: while it is okay to dislike infantry in this game, it is not to say it objectively sucks like it was Bible just because you are not good at it. You just don't like how infantry works here, period.

Download Advanced Genie 3 and create a mod which makes militia-line and Teutonic Knights faster, with more pierce armor and with ranged attack like steppe lancers or Mamelukes, lol. You'll fix your 0% possibilities of hitting anything.

And no: I'm not a multiplayer pro. I'm an average single player gamer who played classic version (AoK + Conquerors) and had manual of it.

Yeah single player gamer so your opinion simply doesnt matter at all thanks for claryfying your lack of knowledge on the subject.

A single player doesnt need to care about meta since you can make anything work in single player. Dude really talks about balance when playing against BOTS xD
infantry works well in single player since bots DON'T abuse the fact that they are slow moving thats probably where you take your clueless opinion as bots just walk straight into any type of unit players actually use hands and just dont send army straight into slow ass infantry pit in case you don't know . You never experienced how useless infantry really feels against someone with actual brain that can abuse their weaknesses and how much less of a spotlight they get compared to other type of units .
even if you micro them its still just simply suboptimal units

i mean if you are talking about single player you are right infantry is good in single player
but im talking about online where infantry is underwhelming which is even stated by pro players and other people that have more knowledge and insight than you
and also by stats . You clearly don't get what meta is in online games and what i was talking about

and no im not a troll for wanting to see more milita and slow infantry play
thats just my preference and opinion they are my favourite type of unit
and they have fun mechanics like getting into rams and siegie towers and i like slow but decisive playstyle
and its also more enjoyable and fun for me to play something else for once in a while than crossbowmen or knight spam more options more variations = more fun in the game.
you can like and want other units to see more spotlight for example
you can be knight or crossbowmen enjoyer but those units already are meta and seen every game so thats not a problem

[yuzhonglu]

Try Sicilians. Their UU in imperial wrecks archers, trade evenly with cav, and beat almost all other infantry.

You also get 35 of them if you have 5 TCs for the cost of only 300 food and 600 gold.

[chaoticbalrog]

In the Age of Kings, early Imperial Champion rush was the standard strategy. Multiple changes were implemented for the Conquerors expansion to make other units more important: Thumb Ring made Archers more accurate and shoot faster, Bloodlines gave Cavalry more HP, and the Hand Cannoneer (which hard counters Infantry) no longer needed a separate research completed to train them after getting Chemistry.

[Barry Chuckle]

I think missile weapons should have slower reload times - that would go a long way to fixing this!

[chaoticbalrog]

Barry Chuckle a écrit :

I think missile weapons should have slower reload times - that would go a long way to fixing this!

Without Thumb Ring, Archers do shoot slower. Do you actively want them to be nerfed so that they become useless even with Thumb Ring?

[Marco]

slayeerpl a écrit :

Marco of The S.o.D. a écrit :

You just said you are too lazy to micro and to learn how to use infantry, then open a thread complaining that militia-line (which is NOT as slow as Teutonic Knights) is too weak at a distance despite others suggested you to garrison swordsmen inside rams or siege towers and the troll is ME???

You are like that other guy who complained 2 months ago that monks do not heal garrisoned units when they are garrisoned too so it was unacceptable and they should do... Thus, you still prove my point that such threads are useless: while it is okay to dislike infantry in this game, it is not to say it objectively sucks like it was Bible just because you are not good at it. You just don't like how infantry works here, period.

Download Advanced Genie 3 and create a mod which makes militia-line and Teutonic Knights faster, with more pierce armor and with ranged attack like steppe lancers or Mamelukes, lol. You'll fix your 0% possibilities of hitting anything.

And no: I'm not a multiplayer pro. I'm an average single player gamer who played classic version (AoK + Conquerors) and had manual of it.

Yeah single player gamer so your opinion simply doesnt matter at all thanks for claryfying your lack of knowledge on the subject.

A single player doesnt need to care about meta since you can make anything work in single player. Dude really talks about balance when playing against BOTS xD
infantry works well in single player since bots DON'T abuse the fact that they are slow moving thats probably where you take your clueless opinion as bots just walk straight into any type of unit players actually use hands and just dont send army straight into slow ass infantry pit in case you don't know . You never experienced how useless infantry really feels against someone with actual brain that can abuse their weaknesses and how much less of a spotlight they get compared to other type of units .
even if you micro them its still just simply suboptimal units

i mean if you are talking about single player you are right infantry is good in single player
but im talking about online where infantry is underwhelming which is even stated by pro players and other people that have more knowledge and insight than you
and also by stats . You clearly don't get what meta is in online games and what i was talking about

and no im not a troll for wanting to see more milita and slow infantry play
thats just my preference and opinion they are my favourite type of unit
and they have fun mechanics like getting into rams and siegie towers and i like slow but decisive playstyle
and its also more enjoyable and fun for me to play something else for once in a while than crossbowmen or knight spam more options more variations = more fun in the game.
you can like and want other units to see more spotlight for example
you can be knight or crossbowmen enjoyer but those units already are meta and seen every game so thats not a problem

Look, Hera and TheViper winning an online game with weak and slow ass Teutonic Knights, clearly not knowing anything about multiplayer games and stats, while their opponents had meta cavalry archers, crossbowmen and knights... Note how the slow ass infantry can never get to heavy cavalry, crossbowmen and villagers, having 0% possibilities to exploit their melee attack:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=th3m7GSRZvg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sHeWhotqlU

Anyway, I've noticed, especially in TheViper's game, both players rushing each other in Feudal with archers, skirmishers, spearmen, scout cavalry. DE's AI uses the same units for rushing in Feudal + villagers lure boars. Classic game's AI behaved different, both in rush and villagers (which didn't lure boars). Yeah, it's not the same as PvP, but Forgotten Empires changed the AI to make it look more like (average) human player than it did classic version by Ensemble.

[Enjoyer]

Marco of The S.o.D. a écrit :

slayeerpl a écrit :

Yeah single player gamer so your opinion simply doesnt matter at all thanks for claryfying your lack of knowledge on the subject.

A single player doesnt need to care about meta since you can make anything work in single player. Dude really talks about balance when playing against BOTS xD
infantry works well in single player since bots DON'T abuse the fact that they are slow moving thats probably where you take your clueless opinion as bots just walk straight into any type of unit players actually use hands and just dont send army straight into slow ass infantry pit in case you don't know . You never experienced how useless infantry really feels against someone with actual brain that can abuse their weaknesses and how much less of a spotlight they get compared to other type of units .
even if you micro them its still just simply suboptimal units

i mean if you are talking about single player you are right infantry is good in single player
but im talking about online where infantry is underwhelming which is even stated by pro players and other people that have more knowledge and insight than you
and also by stats . You clearly don't get what meta is in online games and what i was talking about

and no im not a troll for wanting to see more milita and slow infantry play
thats just my preference and opinion they are my favourite type of unit
and they have fun mechanics like getting into rams and siegie towers and i like slow but decisive playstyle
and its also more enjoyable and fun for me to play something else for once in a while than crossbowmen or knight spam more options more variations = more fun in the game.
you can like and want other units to see more spotlight for example
you can be knight or crossbowmen enjoyer but those units already are meta and seen every game so thats not a problem

Look, Hera and TheViper winning an online game with weak and slow ass Teutonic Knights, clearly not knowing anything about multiplayer games and stats, while their opponents had meta cavalry archers, crossbowmen and knights... Note how the slow ass infantry can never get to heavy cavalry, crossbowmen and villagers, having 0% possibilities to exploit their melee attack:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=th3m7GSRZvg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sHeWhotqlU

Anyway, I've noticed, especially in TheViper's game, both players rushing each other in Feudal with archers, skirmishers, spearmen, scout cavalry. DE's AI uses the same units for rushing in Feudal + villagers lure boars. Classic game's AI behaved different, both in rush and villagers (which didn't lure boars). Yeah, it's not the same as PvP, but Forgotten Empires changed the AI to make it look more like (average) human player than it did classic version by Ensemble.

You didnt watch those videos or what spewing more ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ ? you literally argue for sake of arguing when you know that you are wrong cringy ass eristic

Well lets analyze those games and what those pros have to say about teutonic knight first the viper one :

Viper gets huge lead already with scout &knights was already winning the game having huge advantage over 1 k more points BEFORE TK better eco more buildings and alot of town centers which he made use of to store villagers from knights opponent kinda knew he already lost so he just started sending paladins to teutonic knights to die ,
He says those quotes in this video himself :
" IN THIS SITUATION YOU PROBABLY SHOULD GO PIKEMEN/HALBERDIER ITS SAFER"
"IT MAKES ME HAPPY IM NEVER ABLE TO GO THIS UNIT WITHOUT IT BEING A TROLLING"
So pretty much he was already winning and made tK just to flex on opponent and due to the fact he had so much lead he could just make 3 castles and start producing them
SO yeah ... whats your point with this video ??? it just proves that TK is a meme troll unit that gets to get used in like 1/100 games
thats exactly what i have been saying you donkey that can't read

Now lets look second one the Hera one :
He owns opponent with ONAGERS not the teutonic knights he used onagers very well killing alot of crossbowmen what did tk do ? fcking nothing walked around the map like clowns getting no value killing like 5 knights and got killed by crossbowmen they couldnt even chase down scouts killing the siegie weapons so he lost all the trebs and alot of onagers XDDDDDD and started to losing at one point cuz of that .This game would have ended game 20 minutes earlier with any other type of unit but he just wanted to mess around and tried the teutonic knight challenge he couldnt end / win the game with that so he decided to STOP making teutonic knights to start spamming SCOUTS and SKIRMISHERS with some halbardiers later making 0 TEUTONIC KNIGHTS cuz its literally impossible to win this tk at that level
also HE GETS RAIDED but hes just so good at the game that he can manage to control those raids and killed it with onager but it just clearly shows weakness of tk that did fcking nothing that game. even the title says TEUTONIC KNIGHTS IN PRO GAME
that isnt even pro game just ranked game but even title suggest that Teutonic knight is troll unit that isnt getting any use

He says those quotes in this video : ITS SO SLOW IT PAINS ME
"TEUTONIC KNIGHTS ARE MEME"
"I THINK IM GONNA LOSE " -he started having great loses at one point due to losing so much siege weapons cuz of how slow and useless teutonic knights are
"WINNING WITH THE MEME STRATEGY TEUTONIC KNIGHT SIEGIE ONAGER "

So final conclusion what we can deduce from those videos?
That Teutonic knight is MEME TROLL TRASH UNIT that only gets used to meme and cuz he looks cool
so yeah thats exactly what I HAVE BEEN FCKING SAYING IN U DONKEY CAN YOU ALREADY STOP Aarguing like a kid you delusional eristic and just agree on the fcking truth ? if you still somehow dont believe that slow infantry is garbanzo in this game maybe you check their actual tier lists and where they put the teutonic knight here you have the links :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzxG0lWspqI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nffWQnna220

Also no AI is not even close to humans as they don't micro and are fcking stupid all increasing difficulty does is boost their economy but they never think about how to fight just spam units and send them into hell pit

[Enjoyer]

yuzhonglu a écrit :

Try Sicilians. Their UU in imperial wrecks archers, trade evenly with cav, and beat almost all other infantry.

You also get 35 of them if you have 5 TCs for the cost of only 300 food and 600 gold.

Ye serjant is probably the only slow melee unit done right in this game
Hes has good stats doesnt suffer from counters as much and has good ability to build donjons. Thats how every slow infantry should be having less counters and being more viable in more cases you either need some special ability for those slow units or make them a little more immune to all those 80 % of the game units that counter them or make it cheaper to upgrade them otherwise they just end up as unit that can barely be even used only in rare scenarios that you get punished for using in most games

sadly sicilians dont speak to me their theme and they are pretty hard civ to play from what i know but i guess i will try playing with them since theres no good alternative