I Tried To Like This Game

[Something]

I tried really hard. Age of Empires is just so damned uninviting as a new player. I think the game looks cool, and I like the age advancement thing and what not, but ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ matches just take sooo damn long for a new player to realize they've been doing everything wrong all match, and I simply don't have the patience to put 1,000 hours into bot games to get "multiplayer ready" as some people have told me. Same reason why I don't play DotA. I don't wanna have to put thousands of hours/games in against the A.I. before I'm finally competent enough to go online and lose.

I'm sure once you get enough experience to know what units are good against what and at what quantities, or what units aren't worth building at all. Or what buildings aren't worth building, etc., etc., the game probably opens up and starts getting fun. But it really feels like Age of Empires is one of those franchises where if you weren't there day one when the franchise first started then the learning curve is so steep it's not even like you're pissin' uphill in the wind, it's more like you never even pulled it outta your pants before you started.

I mean if I'm missing something then please by all means share it with me. I really would like to get into the game, but I don't wanna spend 40 minutes to an hour per match to find out everything I did that entire time was completely worthless and wrong.

[Leonardo Dicaprio]

q buen juego

[Kampfschwein Fjonda]

Your AoE analysis regarding Dota and 1000 hrs is correct. It's the same with many classics, chess, playing music, foreign language...
If you want to have fun with less pressure - try playing campaigns. They are especially popular among those who shy away from pissing in the wind while still offering quite a rich AoE experience.

[Crossil]

I mean.... if you want to play competitive of course you're gonna have to spend time on it.

But... why play competitive?

I personally only ever played campaigns.

[𝔜𝔲𝔢]

There are a couple of things you can do:

a) Build Orders are really useful, as it will give you a decent foundation for your game. Try to get one or two down and you're good to go.

https://buildorderguide.com/#/
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1922330728&searchtext=build+order

b) Learn about counter-units:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSv2TR8h0sM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYMr8OCdmsE

c) Remember to always create villagers. On the level you'll be playing you don't need all those fancy tricks and tactics that higher ranked players will use (yet). Don't stop creating villagers until you're at 100+. More villagers = more resources = more soldiers = win.

d) If you've got some time at hand, maybe take a look at T90s "Low Elo Legends" series. There're a lot of tips on what not to do.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLGVjiUKVQd73ckwoSRHF6F4jWdDgk2ZO4

e) Play the "Art of War"-Tutorial. You don't need to be perfect, but it's a good introduction to the things you need when playing multiplayer.

f) Have fun.

[FloosWorld]

Originally posted by Sir Clicksalot:

I tried really hard. Age of Empires is just so damned uninviting as a new player. I think the game looks cool, and I like the age advancement thing and what not, but ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ matches just take sooo damn long for a new player to realize they've been doing everything wrong all match, and I simply don't have the patience to put 1,000 hours into bot games to get "multiplayer ready" as some people have told me. Same reason why I don't play DotA. I don't wanna have to put thousands of hours/games in against the A.I. before I'm finally competent enough to go online and lose.

I'm sure once you get enough experience to know what units are good against what and at what quantities, or what units aren't worth building at all. Or what buildings aren't worth building, etc., etc., the game probably opens up and starts getting fun. But it really feels like Age of Empires is one of those franchises where if you weren't there day one when the franchise first started then the learning curve is so steep it's not even like you're pissin' uphill in the wind, it's more like you never even pulled it outta your pants before you started.

I mean if I'm missing something then please by all means share it with me. I really would like to get into the game, but I don't wanna spend 40 minutes to an hour per match to find out everything I did that entire time was completely worthless and wrong.

The good thing about AoE 2 is, is that you can play it how you like. Of course, if you want to play multiplayer and ranked, there's no way avoiding the basics if you eventually want to play at a decent level.

As others pointed out - there are some useful resources to get started. I also recommend downloading the "Interactive Build Order Guide" mod that is quite useful for newcomers.

[Something]

Originally posted by Min Yua:

There are a couple of things you can do:

a) Build Orders are really useful, as it will give you a decent foundation for your game. Try to get one or two down and you're good to go.

https://buildorderguide.com/#/
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1922330728&searchtext=build+order

b) Learn about counter-units:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSv2TR8h0sM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYMr8OCdmsE

c) Remember to always create villagers. On the level you'll be playing you don't need all those fancy tricks and tactics that higher ranked players will use (yet). Don't stop creating villagers until you're at 100+. More villagers = more resources = more soldiers = win.

d) If you've got some time at hand, maybe take a look at T90s "Low Elo Legends" series. There're a lot of tips on what not to do.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLGVjiUKVQd73ckwoSRHF6F4jWdDgk2ZO4

e) Play the "Art of War"-Tutorial. You don't need to be perfect, but it's a good introduction to the things you need when playing multiplayer.

f) Have fun.

I've watched T90's low elo series he doesn't really tell you what not to do he just kind of laughs at what others do, which without the context of knowledge, I wouldn't know why the play they made was bad since he doesn't seem to point it out.

I didn't bother with build orders since I saw in a video someone say not to bother with build orders as they're a sign of a noob and shouldn't be learned in the first place. Not sure if it was t90 or Aussie though.

I mean I don't have a problem with investing time into a game to get good at it, but I mean to me Age of Empires is a multiplayer game, that's what I bought it for, but to have to play 1,000 hours against bots to get the basic hang of things seems really dumb, ala my dota 2 comparison.

[FloosWorld]

Originally posted by Sir Clicksalot:

I didn't bother with build orders since I saw in a video someone say not to bother with build orders as they're a sign of a noob and shouldn't be learned in the first place. Not sure if it was t90 or Aussie though.

I played my first ranked game on DE after 50 hours or so but there are obviously others that jump in earlier.

I think that one was more meant as a joke. :P Every MP player, whether competitive or casual ,has some kind of BO they follow. The Interactive BO guide I mentioned has some of them, they are all narrated and grade you depending on how fast you can do them.
Feel free to practice them to get a grasp at the game.

[Something]

Originally posted by FloosWorld:

Originally posted by Sir Clicksalot:

I didn't bother with build orders since I saw in a video someone say not to bother with build orders as they're a sign of a noob and shouldn't be learned in the first place. Not sure if it was t90 or Aussie though.

I played my first ranked game on DE after 50 hours or so but there are obviously others that jump in earlier.

I think that one was more meant as a joke. :P Every MP player, whether competitive or casual ,has some kind of BO they follow. The Interactive BO guide I mentioned has some of them, they are all narrated and grade you depending on how fast you can do them.
Feel free to practice them to get a grasp at the game.

What would be the best nation to learn the fundamentals with then? English?

[FloosWorld]

Originally posted by Sir Clicksalot:

Originally posted by FloosWorld:

I played my first ranked game on DE after 50 hours or so but there are obviously others that jump in earlier.

I think that one was more meant as a joke. :P Every MP player, whether competitive or casual ,has some kind of BO they follow. The Interactive BO guide I mentioned has some of them, they are all narrated and grade you depending on how fast you can do them.
Feel free to practice them to get a grasp at the game.

What would be the best nation to learn the fundamentals with then? English?

In AoE 2? Definitely Byzantines due to the following reasons:
- No significant eco bonusses that teach bad habits
- Their trash units (= units that cost no gold, usually counter units) are cheaper, which pouts extra emphasis on producing the right counter
- They have an open tech tree that allows to experiment around
- Their unique unit (cataphract) is cool :P

In AoE 4, definitely go for English or French, those are the beginner civs there.

[Quintem]

Originally posted by Sir Clicksalot:

I didn't bother with build orders since I saw in a video someone say not to bother with build orders as they're a sign of a noob and shouldn't be learned in the first place. Not sure if it was t90 or Aussie though.

I find it hard to believe T90 would say that, no idea who Aussie is.

But anyone that tells you not to learn build orders should not be listened to. RTS games at a competitive level are built around build orders. The most basic build order for AoE2 being standard feudal timings, for scout, MAA or archers. OR fast castle. If you don't learn these you don't even have a foundation to build on.

Now if you stick to build orders so strictly that is makes you lose that's when you need to start learning to adapt. As they saying goes not plan survives contact with the enemy. You can't go in without a plan. That's what a build order is.

[Something]

Originally posted by Quintem:

Originally posted by Sir Clicksalot:

I didn't bother with build orders since I saw in a video someone say not to bother with build orders as they're a sign of a noob and shouldn't be learned in the first place. Not sure if it was t90 or Aussie though.

I find it hard to believe T90 would say that, no idea who Aussie is.

But anyone that tells you not to learn build orders should not be listened to. RTS games at a competitive level are built around build orders. The most basic build order for AoE2 being standard feudal timings, for scout, MAA or archers. OR fast castle. If you don't learn these you don't even have a foundation to build on.

Now if you stick to build orders so strictly that is makes you lose that's when you need to start learning to adapt. As they saying goes not plan survives contact with the enemy. You can't go in without a plan. That's what a build order is.

Aussie, Beastyqt and T90 are who I watch, so it was one of them who said that about build orders. Aussie and Beastyqt seem to do exclusively AoE4 stuff.

[WhatIsLove?]

Originally posted by Sir Clicksalot:

I tried really hard. Age of Empires is just so damned uninviting as a new player. I think the game looks cool, and I like the age advancement thing and what not, but ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ matches just take sooo damn long for a new player to realize they've been doing everything wrong all match, and I simply don't have the patience to put 1,000 hours into bot games to get "multiplayer ready" as some people have told me. Same reason why I don't play DotA. I don't wanna have to put thousands of hours/games in against the A.I. before I'm finally competent enough to go online and lose.

I'm sure once you get enough experience to know what units are good against what and at what quantities, or what units aren't worth building at all. Or what buildings aren't worth building, etc., etc., the game probably opens up and starts getting fun. But it really feels like Age of Empires is one of those franchises where if you weren't there day one when the franchise first started then the learning curve is so steep it's not even like you're pissin' uphill in the wind, it's more like you never even pulled it outta your pants before you started.

I mean if I'm missing something then please by all means share it with me. I really would like to get into the game, but I don't wanna spend 40 minutes to an hour per match to find out everything I did that entire time was completely worthless and wrong.

Heres a story for you what i did when i was a complete nooby like you and what you should do in my opinion also and at the end a conclusion.

Back in 2010 i really started my 'online rts' journey with starcraft2. Before i played lots of rts but never online, so i was delegated to bronze level, because man let me tell you... i was bad. Literally 10 apm

I was trashed over and over again. What i did was rush my opponents.
That made me win more, but still i had no idea about macro or micro.
Cheesed them pretty hard. And in turn i learned to defend against rushes.

Months later i was Gold ranked.

Now people got better and my rushes didnt work anymore. I now was really into the game. So i watched youtube videos. Build orders. Also started learning counters.

Basics, basically, man. Build order after build order i memorized it.
Also i made friends and played with them over and over again.

We used to spectate each other while the others did a 1v1 and chatted about the game. Man the good 'old' times.

Months later i was platinum.

Now i understood build orders.
I was good at macro ( more or less still to improve)
I understood upgrades
I understood scouting
And i understood what to do when i see building x at minute y from the enemy.

But i sucked at micro. So far i could out macro my opponents and just had more sh*t than them but that didnt work anymore. There where as good PLUS they destroyed me with micro.

So i focused on that and within the first year ( roughly 11 months of hardcore playing, but i was very young also :) ) i was Diamond ranked. The highest rank back in 2010, now theres more rankes even.

What i learned there, helped me in any rts. So the next rts you learn you will learn faster.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now to you and your aoe2 journey

You talk about 1000 hours but you do not need 1000 hours to understand the game and be mediocre.

Do not mistake aggressive work with intelligent work. Dont just play. Play but learn something.

If something clearly doesnt work, dont try it again. Switch it up. Dont get stuck 20 hours doing the same, nice you understood how to scout rush? Do something else. Now you got fast castle down? awesome do something else.

You need lots of hours yes, but you also need to have fun.

The journey is the goal here. Go play and lose hard. I would advice to NOT get into units and counters first. Thats not important for a noob.

Noobie games are not won by counters. Noobie games are won with the basics.

Whats important for you is to not miss building villagers.
Not get housed.
Get a good eco
Use resources and get more stuff faster to outmuscle your opponen
Controll groups
Also build orders

Stuff that you need in any rts. The basics. Then youre multiplayer ready already i would say.

If you understand this and you do not have to think about this, then i would advice geting into units and counters.

When you learn mathematics you do not learn the hardest stuff directly. You go 1x1 2x2 3x3 etc and only THEN you go into the really interesting / hard things.

Its a process. Like everything in life. You start small, set small goals and learn and grow.

Thats what iam doing atm in aoe2. But man you gotta take it step by step if you do not have the basics of the rts genre down.

If this process is not fun to you or you want everything NOW NOW NOW. Then iam afraid this is not a game / genre / goal for you.

Edit: Also do not play teamgames imho. Play 1v1 against a ai. Then step up the diff, slowly. If you can defeat hard without much thought then you can start to get into counters maybe. I mean i started playing and defeated hard very easily without much knowledge. I Just outproduced him lol.

Do not get carried by others. I think 1v1 puts the pressure to learn on you and if you can hold yourself you can also hold yourself in team games.

Edit2: and to further encourage you https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2920211045

I played 50 hours of def edition and maybe 50 hours of hd.

Got the best eco in game and the most military faster than the other guys + ahead in points. Won the game too.

Again: Iam not doing this to flex. For sure iam doing so many things wrong still, i know that, what iam trying to give to you is some proof. That once you got the basics down you can play multiplayer just fine.

I really hope you can get at least something out of this book i wrote now.

[TK]

Originally posted by Sir Clicksalot:

I tried really hard. Age of Empires is just so damned uninviting as a new player. I think the game looks cool, and I like the age advancement thing and what not, but ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ matches just take sooo damn long for a new player to realize they've been doing everything wrong all match, and I simply don't have the patience to put 1,000 hours into bot games to get "multiplayer ready" as some people have told me. Same reason why I don't play DotA. I don't wanna have to put thousands of hours/games in against the A.I. before I'm finally competent enough to go online and lose.

I'm sure once you get enough experience to know what units are good against what and at what quantities, or what units aren't worth building at all. Or what buildings aren't worth building, etc., etc., the game probably opens up and starts getting fun. But it really feels like Age of Empires is one of those franchises where if you weren't there day one when the franchise first started then the learning curve is so steep it's not even like you're pissin' uphill in the wind, it's more like you never even pulled it outta your pants before you started.

I mean if I'm missing something then please by all means share it with me. I really would like to get into the game, but I don't wanna spend 40 minutes to an hour per match to find out everything I did that entire time was completely worthless and wrong.

I think your perspective is kinda wrong, it isn't about the immediate results, it is about learning and playing it in your pace and you set your goal post at "BE COMPETITIVE NOW".

I get it, in the day and age we live now everyone wants to do everything efficiently right away but it isn't always about that in my opinion and AoEII is a complex game with a high skill ceiling that takes time to master depending on you but there are young players out there who get good after a few months.

You don't have to play AI, it just helps polishing up your macro skills and getting used to your build order but I would recommend you play the art of war campaign.
You wanna play online right away, do it, you might get your ass kicked or not but you'll eventually get into an elo where you can play more comfortably, there are plenty of players in lower elo who wouldnt be able to beat medium AI.
You can't do things "wrong" in my opinion, if you enjoy yourself and embrace the learning but if that isn't for you thats fine too.

I would recommend you just start off with one civ and learn a build order for that specific civ and just keep at it, if you are still interested.
Never idle TownCenter and always produce villagers while paying attention to military but that is something that just takes time to get good at since there are a lot of things to pay attention to at the same time.

The matches don't get short unless you know what you are doing but for a start you can learn all in feudal style/castle siege one TownCenter rush, and when it doesn't break the enemy fast just resign to shorten match length.
On the topic of resigning, sometimes enemies just don't know when they lost and won't resign and in that case you should scout the map and reduce their villager numbers until you can research spys in castle at imperial age.
Rule of thumb is spears counter knights, knights are powerful but expensive and can even overpower spears but not cost effectively, archers are more dangerous the higher the numbers, infantry is only good if you have something specific in mind or your civ is build around it like malians and if your enemy turtles up and has a lot of castles you gotta add siege.

Edit: I read some of the replies and your replies to these.
To get the basic hang of the game you don't even need close to 100 hours. Don't float resources, keep an eye on your army and don't rally them one by one into the enemy, don't mindlessly spam cav into spears, don't fight with low archer numbers unless you pay attention, it is not really that hard, the macro play, adjusting to what is going on and keeping an eye out for everything is the real challenge.

[poke_ravi]

I think you are right in that games like AoE 2 are uninviting to newer players and have a huge learning curve. I myself don't think I'd be playing DE unless I grew up with the original. Having said that, I think the DE devs have tried to make the game as beginner friendly as possible without taking away the fundamentals of the game. For example, the ability to autoseed farms now and shift-click order sets is such a Godsend. They also included the Art of War for more advanced tips for beginners. I would honestly start out with the campaigns and Art of War first before you delve into multiplayer as that way you can experience all of the civs at your own pace and get a feel for each one's strengths/weaknesses.

I think build orders are actually a good to learn. The universal build order when you start out is actually pretty standardized and the wiki goes over it pretty well: https://ageofempires.fandom.com/wiki/Strategy:Build_order

After the initial build order, you can tailor your build order to whatever strategy you are pursuing. When you are ready to learn some new build orders after the universal one, you can go to one of these websites which lists them:

https://buildorderguide.com/
https://aoecompanion.com/build-guides

Also hotkeys and control groups make playing the game so much easier. I would advise trying to learn at least the most commonly used hotkeys (ie H for Town Center, Shift + , to select all military units, etc).

When you are ready to player multiplayer, I would advise trying ranked matchmaking first. You might not be matched up to someone on your level the first few matches but eventually the system will adjust and match you with someone with at your skill level. I would avoid joining "noobs only" lobbies in the server browser as I've found that the people running those lobbies are often not beginners at all.

[Something]

Sigh maybe I'm just not meant to play Age of Empires. Just played two games. First game I lost because someone built a base next to mine and I didn't know what to do about it. Second game I lost to an army of Scouts. It's like the dude saw that my feudal age came out slowly so he just mass produced scouts and killed all my workers.