why destroying indian civ ?

[Mia Wallace]

India was my favorite civilization. Because Microsoft wants to make even more money on a thousand-year-old game. Simply destroy a solid civilisation for more additional content. I'm watching the Titans League right now. t90 has just said that the Hindustanis can no longer produce pikemans in the future ? Is it true ? I want to play my elephant archers !!! biiiig scam :D

[DesertRose92]

There are a few vids about the potential upcoming changes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Wo84U_znsM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7v5EUtz5BUE

[Mia Wallace]

Maybe I shoud try voobly 11

[Woudo]

It's Halberdiers that Hindustanis are losing, not Pikeman. Only Gurjaras and Turks lack Pikeman.

Hindustanis losing Halberdier does not impact your ability to make Elephant Archers. They're actually getting buffed, so you'll be better off.

[Mia Wallace]

Originally posted by Woudo:

It's Halberdiers that Hindustanis are losing, not Pikeman. Only Gurjaras and Turks lack Pikeman.

Hindustanis losing Halberdier does not impact your ability to make Elephant Archers. They're actually getting buffed, so you'll be better off.

"In Dynasties of India, Elephants Archers lose their status as unique unit for the Indians, to now become a regional unit for the Bengalis, Dravidians, and Gurjaras (but not for the Hindustanis)." I cant because I dont have dlc.

Well but Halberdier ist huge :S

[76561199232607771]

If you've had to play Halberdiers instead of Imperial Camels as Indians then it's either a FFA, or something has gone terribly wrong and you had been on the brink of defeat anyway.

That's because trash units are terribly pop inefficient, and Lanchester Square laws may cause problems even for Byzantines.

Anyone who's had to face Mongols with Elite Mangudai/Siege Onager/Hussar with Byzantines can attest to that.

[Woudo]

Ooh, that is a problemo for you then. I was speaking with the upcoming changes in mind, not thinking about the Dynasties changes.

[Crossil]

You get anti-archer pike bois as unique unit instead 11

The reason why this was done is relatively simple. The Indians as they were prior to this split were for the most part representing the Muslim unified India in its design. Encompassing Sultans, Camel focus, gunpowder, etc. The Elephants were something from India that was added on as a unique unit.

Post split, the elements that were more firmly Indian were changed up and veered to the other three civs. Elephant Archers specifically no longer made sense as a unique unit for the Hindustanis, who now more narrowly depict the Muslim dominated north-western parts of India in this time period. I would assume if they left one of the other civs, like Gurjaras as the mainstay Indian civ with Prithviraj campaign, then you'd be missing the Imperial Camel Riders instead, and the tech tree would've probably seen more changes. So in a way, you would be missing something no matter what happened.

A call had to be made and that's simply that. I don't know, maybe they could've kept Elephant Archers as a generic unit for the Hindustanis? But honestly, I think CA might be more appropriate.

[Nemo_Fulani]

Originally posted by WarPath:

If you've had to play Halberdiers instead of Imperial Camels as Indians then it's either a FFA, or something has gone terribly wrong and you had been on the brink of defeat anyway.

That's because trash units are terribly pop inefficient, and Lanchester Square laws may cause problems even for Byzantines.

Anyone who's had to face Mongols with Elite Mangudai/Siege Onager/Hussar with Byzantines can attest to that.

I would say it depends. Using trash units is not bad in general as you described.

[Styrain]

Originally posted by Mia Wallace:

India was my favorite civilization. Because Microsoft wants to make even more money on a thousand-year-old game. Simply destroy a solid civilisation for more additional content. I'm watching the Titans League right now. t90 has just said that the Hindustanis can no longer produce pikemans in the future ? Is it true ? I want to play my elephant archers !!! biiiig scam :D

Only issue I have that they should be named Mughals/Moghuls, It would be much more cooler imo.. they represent their reign I believe

[Devang]

Originally posted by Styrain:

Originally posted by Mia Wallace:

India was my favorite civilization. Because Microsoft wants to make even more money on a thousand-year-old game. Simply destroy a solid civilisation for more additional content. I'm watching the Titans League right now. t90 has just said that the Hindustanis can no longer produce pikemans in the future ? Is it true ? I want to play my elephant archers !!! biiiig scam :D

Only issue I have that they should be named Mughals/Moghuls, It would be much more cooler imo.. they represent their reign I believe

They don't just represent the Mughals. They also represent the Delhi and other Sultanates that came before the Mughals. Here's a breakdown of their AI names:

Chandragupta II - Gupta Empire (375 to 415 AD)

Harsha Vardhana - North Indian king (590 to 647)

Bappa Rawal - Rajput king

Sabuktigin - Founder of the Ghaznavid dynasty. Born in present day Kyrgyzstan. Dynasty started in the Ghazna province of modern day Afghanistan

Mahmud Ghaznavi - Son of Sabuktigin

Muhammad Ghori - Sultan of the Ghorid dynasty. The dynasty that overthrew and replaced the Ghaznavids. Primary antagonist of the Prithviraj campaign

Ghiyath al-Din - Ghori's brother

Qutb-ud-Din Aibak - A Mamluk (slave soldier) general of Cuman origins in Ghori's army. Was given the rule of Ghori's holdings in modern day India. Founded the first dynasty i.e. the Mamluk dynasty of the Delhi Sultanate. Delhi Sultanate is present as a faction in AoE4

Iltutmish - Third ruler of the Mamluk dynasty of the Delhi Sultanate

Ala-ud-Din Khalji - Second ruler of the Khalji dynasty of the Delhi Sultanate. Second dynasty of the Delhi Sultanate after the Mamluks

Babur - Founder of the Mughal empire. Defeated Ibrahim Lodhi, the last Sultan of the Delhi Sultanate to establish the Mughal empire. Has an campaign in AoE2

Humayun - Second Mughal emperor

Akbar the Great - Third Mughal emperor. Featured AI personality for the Indians in AoE3

Man Singh I - Rajput king of Amber (modern day Jaipur), and a vassal general of Akbar

[DMg Halt]

Originally posted by Mia Wallace:

India was my favorite civilization. Because Microsoft wants to make even more money on a thousand-year-old game. Simply destroy a solid civilisation for more additional content. I'm watching the Titans League right now. t90 has just said that the Hindustanis can no longer produce pikemans in the future ? Is it true ? I want to play my elephant archers !!! biiiig scam :D

I felt the same way when they got rid of Mayans Obsidian arrows. I just find another favorite civ, even though I still like the mayans. I just can't use the archer rush on arena anymore which I had a lot of fun with despite it not being successful all the time.

[Kampfschwein Fjonda]

There is a small difference, Mr. Halt: Obsidian arrows are gone. Elephant archers are not gone ... at all. I enjoy them quite a lot on my team 1100 Elo.

But for OP dlcs are a pay-to-win ripoff and s/he has been posting on HD board of wanting to go back to the old superior game versions. Lost cause, case closed.

[DMg Halt]

Ah, I thought he was talking about the Indian nerf and how they don't have halberdiers anymore, only pikemen. I think the elephant archers were just moved from the castle to the archery range were they not?

[Kampfschwein Fjonda]

Well yes, also some 50 HP were knocked off, Spirit of the law made a nice video about that.

However, if you refuse buying dlc, your archery stays barren and nobody will help you about that.

I guess if Hindustani would also get archery range Elephant archers the logical step would be to hate devs because Ele Archers are weaker now than before. It's quite easy to find fault if you look dedicatedly enough.

[Crossil]

Originally posted by DMg Halt:

Ah, I thought he was talking about the Indian nerf and how they don't have halberdiers anymore, only pikemen. I think the elephant archers were just moved from the castle to the archery range were they not?

Hindustanis, which are the reworked Indians, are the only Indian civ that doesn't have them. They have Cavalry Archers instead.