Can Age of Empires work in an Atomic Era setting?

[knjaz]

Do you guys think that the Age of Empires system could work in the periods of World War I, World War II, or both?

[BuchiTaton]

Rise of Nation and Empire Earth cover that time range with a similar gameplay to AoE.

I think an exclusive mechanized warfare could works, even we can have a pretty close development to AoE2 formula:

1° AGE, this is the "Prologue Age" like Stone in AoE1, Dark in AoE2 and Discovery in AoE3, when you have the minimum militar options. This time could represent very late 19th century and very early 20th century when you can only train Cavalry (an archaic scout unit) and the basic infantry Rifleman unit.
2° AGE, represent WW1 now you can have proper mechanized units and buildings, but their early versions like Biplane Fighters and Landship tanks. Gameplay would be usualy defensive based on trenches.
3° AGE, the WW2 for a more offensive gameplay with a morer diverse set of units like Dive Bombers and Rocket Launchers.
4° AGE, covers early Cold War when we can see the top tech "super weapons" like AoE2 has Bombard Cannon and AoE3 has Gatling Gun this game could have Nuclear Silos, Attack Helicopters, etc.

[Gorilianul]

The closest thing to this is Red Alert 2. I played/play this, not so often anymore, also.
With the Russians/communists you get Nuclear Silos and the ability to nuke entire bases.

[Resident NATO Freedom Enjoyer]

I mean Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds is literally Age of empires 2 with laser rifles and tanks.

Edit for clarification: Made using the same engine and is pretty much both a reskin and a completely new game. Campaigns are fun, multiplayer is fun although it's dead unless you and a bud play, and there's still a semi active modding community.

[jonoliveira12]

No, as Air units would be extremely awkward.
Even Rise of Nations had issues with it, and you had to have silly stuff like 50 Bombers coming out of an Airport that was smaller than they were, and returning there to rearm.

Tanks would also be weird, and you would just get AoE4 style single unit spams, where Infantry would be completely abandoned, and people would just spam Heavy Tanks and Anti-Tank units, making the gameplay devolve beyond counters, just like it was in C&C, and now in AoE4.

[BuchiTaton]

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

No, as Air units would be extremely awkward.
Even Rise of Nations had issues with it, and you had to have silly stuff like 50 Bombers coming out of an Airport that was smaller than they were, and returning there to rearm.

Like Elephants inside Transport Ships in AOE2.

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

Tanks would also be weird, and you would just get AoE4 style single unit spams, where Infantry would be completely abandoned, and people would just spam Heavy Tanks and Anti-Tank units, making the gameplay devolve beyond counters, just like it was in C&C, and now in AoE4.

The amount of trebuchet shots a Paladin can take or the pierce armor of shirtless Eagle Warriors is not "historical", devs could mess all they want with units values to balance them like they do with AoE2.

People would be surprised but medieval villagers do not used to survive to be hit by on-fire trunk sized projectiles fired by mini sail-ships.

[Cosmic Cat]

Originally posted by BuchiTaton:

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

No, as Air units would be extremely awkward.
Even Rise of Nations had issues with it, and you had to have silly stuff like 50 Bombers coming out of an Airport that was smaller than they were, and returning there to rearm.

Like Elephants inside Transport Ships in AOE2.

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

Tanks would also be weird, and you would just get AoE4 style single unit spams, where Infantry would be completely abandoned, and people would just spam Heavy Tanks and Anti-Tank units, making the gameplay devolve beyond counters, just like it was in C&C, and now in AoE4.

The amount of trebuchet shots a Paladin can take or the pierce armor of shirtless Eagle Warriors is not "historical", devs could mess all they want with units values to balance them like they do with AoE2.

People would be surprised but medieval villagers do not used to survive to be hit by on-fire trunk sized projectiles fired by mini sail-ships.

Got to have to find a balance between realism and gameplay

[KingKickAss]

Check out Company of Heroes 2.

Edit: You're actually playing it as I post this.

[jonoliveira12]

Originally posted by KingKickAss:

Check out Company of Heroes 2.

Edit: You're actually playing it as I post this.

CoH2 is nothing like AoE.

[KingKickAss]

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

Originally posted by KingKickAss:

Check out Company of Heroes 2.

Edit: You're actually playing it as I post this.

CoH2 is nothing like AoE.

Air units not actually existing or at best being restricted to some sort of ability, should they be included. Making resources identical to AoE would be stupid because you're not about to have people running around the map collecting from piles of steel and gasoline to build with, every weapon is going to be a gun in a WW2 era RTS game which would mean that a hypothetical WW2 Age of Empires game can't do this whole infantry, ranged, cavalry, siege unit setup because everything you are going to build will be ranged with a different damage or armour type.

Something like Supcom would probably be a better example for OP because it does have multiple resource types while also having gigantic unit blobs, etc. But the topic was WW2 so my mind immediately went to the world war 2 themed RTS game with base building, multiple resources and a unit cap while ruling out how silly trying to have air units in a game like Age would be.

[jonoliveira12]

Originally posted by KingKickAss:

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

CoH2 is nothing like AoE.

Air units not actually existing or at best being restricted to some sort of ability, should they be included. Making resources identical to AoE would be stupid because you're not about to have people running around the map collecting from piles of steel and gasoline to build with, every weapon is going to be a gun in a WW2 era RTS game which would mean that a hypothetical WW2 Age of Empires game can't do this whole infantry, ranged, cavalry, siege unit setup because everything you are going to build will be ranged with a different damage or armour type.

Something like Supcom would probably be a better example for OP because it does have multiple resource types while also having gigantic unit blobs, etc. But the topic was WW2 so my mind immediately went to the world war 2 themed RTS game with base building, multiple resources and a unit cap while ruling out how silly trying to have air units in a game like Age would be.

Even the way units handle is completely the opposite of AoE.
CoH has squads and a focus on unit survivability. AoE has super hard counters that make even the best units look like disposable chaff to their counters.

AoE armies are also MUCH bigger than CoH's, and the game is MUCH slower.

CoH and CoH2 is not something I would ever recommend to someone who wants AoE gameplay. It is almost the exact opposite of it, as far as RTS goes. And CoH is barely RTS, as it stands.

[KingKickAss]

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

Originally posted by KingKickAss:

Air units not actually existing or at best being restricted to some sort of ability, should they be included. Making resources identical to AoE would be stupid because you're not about to have people running around the map collecting from piles of steel and gasoline to build with, every weapon is going to be a gun in a WW2 era RTS game which would mean that a hypothetical WW2 Age of Empires game can't do this whole infantry, ranged, cavalry, siege unit setup because everything you are going to build will be ranged with a different damage or armour type.

Something like Supcom would probably be a better example for OP because it does have multiple resource types while also having gigantic unit blobs, etc. But the topic was WW2 so my mind immediately went to the world war 2 themed RTS game with base building, multiple resources and a unit cap while ruling out how silly trying to have air units in a game like Age would be.

Even the way units handle is completely the opposite of AoE.
CoH has squads and a focus on unit survivability. AoE has super hard counters that make even the best units look like disposable chaff to their counters.

AoE armies are also MUCH bigger than CoH's, and the game is MUCH slower.

CoH and CoH2 is not something I would ever recommend to someone who wants AoE gameplay. It is almost the exact opposite of it, as far as RTS goes. And CoH is barely RTS, as it stands.

Right, but what I'm trying to say is that making a game like Age of Empires in a modern setting can't really work by being a total copy of it. Like if you took CoH and chopped up it's features to try and mimic Age, you might have an idea of what this hypothetical game could look like, with resources being gathered from nodes that you set up on, and trying to create unit diversity through guns. Regardless, I'm not about to get too deep into discussing and arguing about a game that doesn't actually exist.

[jonoliveira12]

Originally posted by KingKickAss:

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

Even the way units handle is completely the opposite of AoE.
CoH has squads and a focus on unit survivability. AoE has super hard counters that make even the best units look like disposable chaff to their counters.

AoE armies are also MUCH bigger than CoH's, and the game is MUCH slower.

CoH and CoH2 is not something I would ever recommend to someone who wants AoE gameplay. It is almost the exact opposite of it, as far as RTS goes. And CoH is barely RTS, as it stands.

Right, but what I'm trying to say is that making a game like Age of Empires in a modern setting can't really work by being a total copy of it. Like if you took CoH and chopped up it's features to try and mimic Age, you might have an idea of what this hypothetical game could look like, with resources being gathered from nodes that you set up on, and trying to create unit diversity through guns. Regardless, I'm not about to get too deep into discussing and arguing about a game that doesn't actually exist.

I agree. Star Wars worked because Star Wars is extremely unrealistic in it's depiction of warfare.
They still use firing lines and square formations, in the prquels, which is insane when they also have giant Tanks, repeater weapons, Bombers and multiple-fire explosive Artillery weapons.

Actual World Wars and Cold War Era combat, would not at all fit AoE gameplay.
AoE4 already has Panzer Batallion style Bombard play, and NO ONE likes it!
It is just not AoE, at all.

[Agarillobob]

yea we had empire earth campaigns set during WW1 and WW2 which worked great

[jonoliveira12]

Originally posted by Agarillobob:

yea we had empire earth campaigns set during WW1 and WW2 which worked great

Not at all!
They were awful games, had Magic, were broken unbalanced and unstable, and the series died because of it.

Empire Earth is a cautionary tale, for AoE.

Stay in that Sword and Spear gameplay, or eventually become so convoluted you will self destruct, without a playerbase.

[BuchiTaton]

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

Not at all!
They were awful games, had Magic,

Because AoE's healing while fighting and religious conversion of siege weapons is 100% not magic.

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

were broken unbalanced and unstable,

Be broken and unbalanced is exclusive to Modern Era?

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

and the series died because of it.

Series, with 3 games like AoE at the time. The third was a massive downgrade hated by EE fans, the time range was not the issue for the first two games.
Also nice you ignore that late 2000's and early 2010´s was a "dark age" for RTS in general included AoE.

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

Stay in that Sword and Spear gameplay, or eventually become so convoluted you will self destruct, without a playerbase.

Then lets blame the minority of gunpowder units in AoE4 for the failure of that game to surpass AoE2. Better to ignore all other issues over a few units whose balance is matter of arbitrary numbers like any other unit in the game.