AOE2 is moving in the WRONG direction

[𝔫𝔢𝔬𝔫]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZhtirkOBdI

The video says it all. The current devs made a lot of great things to revive this classic but it seems to be going downhill now.
And I expect future gimmicks only to get worse.

How can you copy the Leitis' ability and introduce it as a laughable "Wootz Steel" tech?
ALL Dravidian infantry ignores armour which is beyond broken, even archers they catch up with aren't a counter anymore.

I like the new DLC a lot and pre-ordered it the first day but this is not how you balance a game.
You make other infantry useless (like Berserks) in comparison to the point that even designated counters like Samurai have no chance.
As if that wasn't broken enough, they get fully upgraded Archers as a bonus and a solid eco.

How to fix this? I would change this tech's effect completely or at the very least change it to get the Obuch's armour-lowering effect.

Stop releasing overpowered civs to push sales and show some class.

[jonoliveira12]

Originally posted by shoobers:

If you let them get that far, yes, Dravidians do well. Dravidians can't get that far against almost every other civilization due to the rush and early game.

Dravidians are the ones good at rushing. You literally get very cheap M@A upgrade, and 200 Wood, when you hit Feudal.
Dravidians should be the rushing civ, in almost every scenario.

[chaoticbalrog]

They should be, and yet the Dravidian eco being in the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ means that if they are on the receiving end of a rush, they'll probably fold like a house of cards.

[Svensgaard]

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

Originally posted by Svensgaard:

Relax people, the devs always nerf the new civs, it happened ith other DLCs too, they probably are reading this discussion right now and are preparing to balance the Indian civs in the next patch so don't worry.

About Urumi Swordsman, it is basically the ONLY unit they have that's realiable alone, they have the arbalests too but they can't win the game alone, they are really bad at siege and being sieged and a good player will not put one sort of unit to engage another.

And the cost of them is in gold, they lack versatility.

The Dravidians are extremely limited in their gamestyle options, the Urumi and wootz steel must be nerfed, but they need a buff on other things, in fact this is the most problematic AOE civ I ever saw, in all AOEs.

Playing with the dravidians is basically going imperial fast and building defenses early to prevent a rush that they are really weak against, make far more villagers than necessary to keep an economy, reach Imperial, build a lot of Urumi Swordsman, halberdiers, arbalest as supports, some battle elephants, siege elephants, scorpions and trebuchets in lower numbers because of the low economy and population capacity and trying to bypass the lots of arrows and enemy cavalry.

The turtle player deals well against their attacks, the early rusher crush them easily, the Cuman will really like it.

They have Arbalests, super ESkirms, and easy to upgrade Halbs and Champs, with Wootz Steel.
They have more than enough.

Dravidians can do a Arbs + Halbs push very easy, their ESkirms will always win any trade with other ESkirms, and they get Siege Elephants, which are much faster than Rams, and also benefit from Wootz Steel.

Their Siege Elephants are the weakest of the game, even with the medical corps, they are unrealiable without a lot of protection, the cost to build a siege army in resources and population made is usefull only in a land battle, the do really bad at siege and defense, and the bombard tower don't compensate it.

Their army is expensive and lower in numbersas they need more villagers.

They have OP units but low resource incoming, when gold ends, if they don't have trade carts or a lot of relics they will rely only in the spearman line waves.

If you play against Dravidians, you just need to be the rusher and may even attack them in the castle age, or be the turtle player and hold the line until they don't have any stone or gold nearby, as they don't have crop rotation the wood will be over soon too, what will make them have shortage of food and you just steamroll them easily.

[DesertRose92]

Originally posted by BandanaBanana:

and winrates say the same ^^ According to winrates dravidians are bottom tier over all skill levels ^^

What would be interested are winrates relative to game length.
I suspect Dravidians are the strongest in short games, fall flat in games that are decided in Castle Age, and soars slightly in games lasting until Imperial Age.

[Svensgaard]

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

Originally posted by shoobers:

If you let them get that far, yes, Dravidians do well. Dravidians can't get that far against almost every other civilization due to the rush and early game.

Dravidians are the ones good at rushing. You literally get very cheap M@A upgrade, and 200 Wood, when you hit Feudal.
Dravidians should be the rushing civ, in almost every scenario.

They don't have cavalry technology, a Dravidian rush will rely mostly on cheap infantry, this is not hard to deal with at all.

[DesertRose92]

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

and they get Siege Elephants, which are much faster than Rams, and also benefit from Wootz Steel.

Armored Elephant, Siege Elephant and Siege Ram have speed 0.6, Battering Ram and
Capped Ram have speed 0.5.
Armored Elephant and Siege Elephant, due to being cavalry, benefit from Husbandry, which Dravidians lack. Iirc Rams get a 0.05 speed boost per infantry units garrisoned.
They do not benefit from Siege Engineers (which Dravidians also lack).

[chaoticbalrog]

Originally posted by DesertRose92:

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

and they get Siege Elephants, which are much faster than Rams, and also benefit from Wootz Steel.

Armored Elephant, Siege Elephant and Siege Ram have speed 0.6, Battering Ram and
Capped Ram have speed 0.5.
Armored Elephant and Siege Elephant, due to being cavalry, benefit from Husbandry, which Dravidians lack. Iirc Rams get a 0.05 speed boost per infantry units garrisoned.
They do not benefit from Siege Engineers (which Dravidians also lack).

Furthermore, Rams get more attack vs buildings when they have infantry garrisoned in them. Armored Elephants and Siege Elephants cannot be garrisoned so their attack bonus remains static

[Yelocap]

Originally posted by Devang:

Please learn to read the room. The discussion has already moved past that point. The discussion you're trying to necro was done pre-release. Now we're beyond speculation and getting into actual real world data. So please, stop butting in where you're not needed, wasting others time, and move on.

I didn't read your post. You're a dumb person. You tried to sound smart by constructing what you think are mathematical proofs, because you are a dumb person who doesn't understand how to use math or logic and believes in stereotypes like smart people are good at math. Which in this case the converse is correct because you're a dumb person who is bad at math.

I don't care if it's an old post, you're still going on about it and responding as if you're not wrong. But you were wrong.

Originally posted by Devang:

OP was crying about Urumi beating everything. In the same test, Coustillier beat Urumi. So excluding Halberdiers, which I specified, would that not mean that Coustilliers also beat everything the Urumi can

They don't, though, do they? So...?

[𝔫𝔢𝔬𝔫]

Originally posted by chaoticbalrog:

Originally posted by Devang:

OP was crying about Urumi beating everything. In the same test, Coustillier beat Urumi. So excluding Halberdiers, which I specified, would that not mean that Coustilliers also beat everything the Urumi can

They don't, though, do they? So...?

I've debunked this illogical comparison in not one but several posts on the previous pages, this person seemed to ignore it and just proceeds to spam it over again.

Urumi beat basically everything except for Elephants which are dead-countered by monks.
While the Coustillier does not, far from it actually.

[chaoticbalrog]

Originally posted by Petschenege:

Originally posted by chaoticbalrog:

They don't, though, do they? So...?

I've debunked this illogical comparison in not one but several posts on the previous pages, this person seemed to ignore it and just proceeds to spam it over again.

Urumi beat basically everything except for Elephants which are dead-countered by monks.
While the Coustillier does not, far from it actually.

Whatever, n00b.

[𝔫𝔢𝔬𝔫]

Originally posted by chaoticbalrog:

Originally posted by Petschenege:

I've debunked this illogical comparison in not one but several posts on the previous pages, this person seemed to ignore it and just proceeds to spam it over again.

Urumi beat basically everything except for Elephants which are dead-countered by monks.
While the Coustillier does not, far from it actually.

Whatever, n00b.

That's what I thought.

[P_Clutch]

Originally posted by Petschenege:

Originally posted by chaoticbalrog:

They don't, though, do they? So...?

I've debunked this illogical comparison in not one but several posts on the previous pages, this person seemed to ignore it and just proceeds to spam it over again.

Urumi beat basically everything except for Elephants which are dead-countered by monks.
While the Coustillier does not, far from it actually.

Seriously, you are the one spamming with this stupidity. When you reach a point where mass urumis are in play, the game is already won.

In what scenario in real game, you see 30 urumis fighting 30 UU of other civs with no other units in play? Only in a noob black forest game. If that's your thing, then just play and dont talk here. Just plainly wasting everyone's time.

[Shad]

Originally posted by Petschenege:

Urumi beat basically everything except for Elephants which are dead-countered by monks.
While the Coustillier does not, far from it actually.

Urumi, like any infantry get annihilated by ranged units. With 0 base pierce armor, there is little you can do about it. And no, you cannot tech into both elite skirms and urumis, for the same reason it doesn't work for other civs with even more impressive skirm bonuses. If you can tech into 2 separate unit lines and build castles in castle age, you have already won the game with any civ.

[𝔫𝔢𝔬𝔫]

Originally posted by Shad:

Originally posted by Petschenege:

Urumi beat basically everything except for Elephants which are dead-countered by monks.
While the Coustillier does not, far from it actually.

Urumi, like any infantry get annihilated by ranged units. With 0 base pierce armor, there is little you can do about it. And no, you cannot tech into both elite skirms and urumis

First off both of your statements are wrong and secondly, just tech into Elite Skirms alone in that case.

[ЁЖ]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkOgQCl9jrI