A note on Judaism in the Middle Ages

[Mad Doctor]

It is rather obvious that the Jewish Diaspora do not fit well in the playstyle of the game, but since Jewish history and influence is often ignored and in recent years Farrakan's goons have increased the persecution and terrorising of their communities worldwide, a small acknowledgement of their existence would be nice.

I did mention in my old "New Civilisation Ideas" thread that the Old New Synagogue in Prag could be an interesting wonder for a Bohemian addition. There is also the possibility of adding a "Jewish Expatriates" or something technology to grant maybe faster research or making trade generate other resources than just gold.

Other option would be increasing the number of noteworthy Jews mentioned and represented in the campaigns. I mean, Jews had interactions with Goths, Saxons, Vikings and what have you, and thaat history is worth sharing.
Incidentally, I have always wanted one where the main hero is a monk, so while that would fit better the likes of Saint Patrick, Bodhidharma or Saint Bernard de Clairvaux, maybe making Maimonides or Markhir of Narbonne, or any of the many acclaimed Jewish leaders of the medieval Era.

___________

And a unrelated note, but I do really miss Tracking and Cartography, so maybe using their old icons for some new technology would be nice. #OCD #Nostalgia

[MSTVD]

i agree, some representations of medieval jewry would be lovely whether ashkenazim, knaanim, zarphaatim, romanyot, yevanim, or sephardim

[Mad Doctor]

Originally posted by MSTVD:

i agree, some representations of medieval jewry would be lovely whether ashkenazim, knaanim, zarphaatim, romanyot, yevanim, or sephardim

I would not into great depth with factions because the Middle Ages is made of a thousand years, plus some transitional centuries, and things changed a lot over time. Jewish livelihood was particularly volatile and uncertain during that time, even more than today, so lots of changes atop a lot of changes.

[Did you expect a name?]

I kind of agree with this. Even though jews never bothered to create a civilization of their own after their expulsion by Hadrian (and it seems like they never will disappear, judging from the amount of attention they get from those who hate them, for whatever low IQ'd reason), for whatever OTHER reason (even Zoroastrians had an emirate or whatever it was in Persia, during the early islamic era), they should see SOME representation.

Though we may have to wait until AoE4, which might introduce the ability to flavour existing civs, like what was seen in age of mythology or AoE3 with its age upgrades.

Jews didn't have their own civ, however, they could influence a civ through age specific techs.

[Mad Doctor]

Originally posted by nofreewill:

I kind of agree with this. Even though jews never bothered to create a civilization of their own after their expulsion by Hadrian (and it seems like they never will disappear, judging from the amount of attention they get from those who hate them, for whatever low IQ'd reason), for whatever OTHER reason (even Zoroastrians had an emirate or whatever it was in Persia, during the early islamic era) (...)

Well, glad we agree. However, unless you have a doctorate in the Jewish Diaspora and done extensive research, do not be so judgemental.

[Did you expect a name?]

I'm not, I'm just being neutral.

[No Longer A Demon Door]

I wouldn't exactly fault AoE2 or AoE3 for missing out on the Jews during the whole diaspora period...unlike, say, AoE1 (which features many civs which were contemporary to the Israelites). As you said, the Jewish diaspora would, by its' very nature, be something of a conceptual challenge given the precarious and extremely ambiguous position assigned to it under ecclesiastical & secular authority, which ordained them as an underclass.

Using the Radhanites as a trade buff of sorts during the Dark Age could fit in this context, going beyond this Age becomes tricky and representing them as essentially tax-farming moneylenders would obviously breach the boundaries of good taste into risky territory (this isn't to say it's impossible to achieve, Paradox pulled it off quite well with Crusader Kings 2). Exilarchs such as the aforementioned Makhir of Narbonne is a good idea but again, it corresponds to the relatively freer and less codified Carolingian period.

Moses ben Nachman might constitute a plot element beginning from his 1263 disputation and following him to his final destination in the Holy Land, but how the actual gameplay of building settlements and armies plays into this story I would not know.

It's funny you mention Bernard de Clairvaux however, as he travelled to the Holy Roman Empire to protect Jewish communities from over-zealous Christians who had taken a liking to his preaching for the Second Crusade. This would actually make a good escort-type campaign, albeit a very dark one.

[Mad Doctor]

In Late Antiquity and the Early Middle Ages, the Church was very close of Jewish communities indeed. Alas, things changed.

[Bran Mak Morn]

just add the khazars.

[poke_ravi]

They could add the Kingdom of Jerusalem

[Did you expect a name?]

Yeah, add Khazars I agree. I forgot about that kingdom

Also, give them combat caravans and trade cogs, because merchants :D

[Mad Doctor]

Originally posted by poke_ravi:

They could add the Kingdom of Jerusalem

A Christian Crusader State?
I mean, I suggested it elsewhere, many times even, but not sure how it would help with this.

[Mad Doctor]

Originally posted by nofreewill:

Yeah, add Khazars I agree. I forgot about that kingdom
Also, give them combat caravans and trade cogs, because merchants :D

Bah! For the most part they were as Jewish as Madonna is Jewish.

[Mad Doctor]

I was going to add something, but another thread made me focus in Romanian history and I can not remember what i was about to say.
Maybe will come to me later.

[mickeyjim2]

Originally posted by Temujin:

just add the khazars.

I considered the Khazars at one point, but the Cumans essentially fill that role. Same region, same army composition with a focus on cavalry, cavalry archers and siege, plus the central
Asian architecture is the most appropriate set for them anyway. The Cumans' wonder is actually a Khazar fortress (albeit a destroyed version of it). Plus some of the Cumans' AI opponent names are actually Khazars, not Cuman-Kipchaks. This is even a quote from the Cumans wiki page "Some Cuman AI players are named after Khazar and Pecheneg rulers, showing that the Cumans represent not only the Cuman-Kipchak confederation/Cumania, but also other Turkic peoples who historically occupied the Pontic-Caspian steppe."

[Did you expect a name?]

I can't think of any other jewish empires, besides the Cumans