Without Nerf, All AOE 2 Matchups will Become Sicilian vs Sicilian

[yuzhonglu]

Yes.

Wall yourself in (or start walled in in Arena). Get 3-5 TCs in Castle Age ASAP, get a Castle, win.

[jonoliveira12]

Автор сообщения: Ailaf Dzekov

Автор сообщения: jonoliveira12

Everyone has known, since LotW released, that Sicilians was one of teh worst civs in teh game.
50% bonus damage ruction, still lets the counter system work, and they have no unit that can actually take advantage of that bonus.

Scouts against spears

Still not super strong, and still does not win them games.

[Jesus Saves]

Автор сообщения: jinglan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JUYH39TNKg#t=41m42s

Hera: Sicilians = worst civ in the game.

@yuzhonglu How you like them apples?

hera dosent know sh!t

[theworld]

Apparently neither does anyone else, because Sicilians got picked exactly once during HC 4 and even then they lost.

[yuzhonglu]

I'm winning 80-90% of my games on Arena with them.

[AOE2.GG | MattWithAHat]

I have seen an unbeatable strategy by Sicilians on Arena 2vs2. One goes another civ with good early economy and just slings Sicilian like hell. The Sicilian then goas super fast Castle, Castle drop + 4 TCs in front of enemy base and gg.

It can be so fast, it's basically unstopable. I usually have a castle time of 13:30 on arena, but the last time I played vs. this strategy, the game was as good as over, when I reached castle age.

[theworld]

Автор сообщения: yuzhonglu

I'm winning 80-90% of my games on Arena with them.

That's like saying "I'm walking faster than 80-90% of people on the street", when people on the street include the sick, old, children, disabled, etc.

Doesn't sound like much of an accomplishment.

[theworld]

Автор сообщения: MattWithAHat

I have seen an unbeatable strategy by Sicilians on Arena 2vs2. One goes another civ with good early economy and just slings Sicilian like hell. The Sicilian then goas super fast Castle, Castle drop + 4 TCs in front of enemy base and gg.

You're spending 2850 res to get 35 units, which comes out to 81 per unit, which is what Militia would cost without supplies. Actually more than that, since your ally pays the market tax of 30%

If one of your opponents is either Teutons or Franks, you're not going to win unless the opponent's teammate is retarded and does not send him stone for a castle. Also, most other civs with good anti-infantry UU like Aztecs or Japanese, etc. can probably defend this as well.

There's also the problem of you simply crossing the middle to build all of that, and them not knowing it or preventing it.

If one of the opponents is Slavs and plays the Siege Tower + Long swordsmen drop then either you or your ally will die, and they have the better eco. Assuming you kill Slav's ally and he kills yours, it's 1v1 vs a better civ, since you have nothing but Serjeants, while he has Boyars, Hussars, Siege and even Champions as viable options.

[Eternal]

Dont quote Hera as if he was a source of absolute knowladge. He is top 20 or top 10 or whatever as of now and it is well earned spot but some of his arguments are at times pulled out of an ass like saying that you should never use waypoints to scout coz it takes 0.1 s more time and is 2% less efficient or how he does not acknowladge strong feudal and castle age from sicilians that can easily snowballbout of controll also spanish and Magyars D tier? Bruh

[yuzhonglu]

Автор сообщения: jinglan

Автор сообщения: yuzhonglu

I'm winning 80-90% of my games on Arena with them.

That's like saying "I'm walking faster than 80-90% of people on the street", when people on the street include the sick, old, children, disabled, etc.

Doesn't sound like much of an accomplishment.

1100-1300. Where the majority (of forum users) are.

[yuzhonglu]

Автор сообщения: jinglan

Автор сообщения: MattWithAHat

I have seen an unbeatable strategy by Sicilians on Arena 2vs2. One goes another civ with good early economy and just slings Sicilian like hell. The Sicilian then goas super fast Castle, Castle drop + 4 TCs in front of enemy base and gg.

You're spending 2850 res to get 35 units, which comes out to 81 per unit, which is what Militia would cost without supplies. Actually more than that, since your ally pays the market tax of 30%

If one of your opponents is either Teutons or Franks, you're not going to win unless the opponent's teammate is retarded and does not send him stone for a castle. Also, most other civs with good anti-infantry UU like Aztecs or Japanese, etc. can probably defend this as well.

There's also the problem of you simply crossing the middle to build all of that, and them not knowing it or preventing it.

If one of the opponents is Slavs and plays the Siege Tower + Long swordsmen drop then either you or your ally will die, and they have the better eco. Assuming you kill Slav's ally and he kills yours, it's 1v1 vs a better civ, since you have nothing but Serjeants, while he has Boyars, Hussars, Siege and even Champions as viable options.

1. Both sides who boom will get castle on Arena.
2. Everyone who booms gets at least 3 TCs on Arena.
3. Most get 4.

So the only difference is that as Sicilians you get an extra 5th TC.

You're not arguing in good faith, Mr. Obvious Troll Man Who Likes to Necro Threads.

The early imperial push is real in 1v1. If both sides boom equally well, the Sicilian starts Early Imperial with 30 extra units, which can snowball quickly.

[theworld]

These extra units aren't free. UT costs roughly 10 Serjeants. You save in the ballpark of 2000 wood around minute 34, which is good, but your composition is bad compared to most other civs, so if they hold then you're in very bad shape.

If the civ has good eco and an effective infantry counter then you're almost lost by default.

[theworld]

Автор сообщения: yuzhonglu

You're not arguing in good faith, Mr. Obvious Troll Man Who Likes to Necro Threads.

I replied to a guy who was posting a completely different scenario: 4 TC in front of enemy base and rush in TG, not booming in your own base 1v1.

Who's not arguing in good faith here?

[yuzhonglu]

Автор сообщения: jinglan

These extra units aren't free. UT costs roughly 10 Serjeants. You save in the ballpark of 2000 wood around minute 34, which is good, but your composition is bad compared to most other civs, so if they hold then you're in very bad shape.

If the civ has good eco and an effective infantry counter then you're almost lost by default.

It's about 25 extra units for free with 5 TCs. The tech and the fifth TC costs about 10 sargeants.

If they hold, sure. Good luck in holding it.

Dunno, I'm smashing Slavs, Teutons, and Franks with Sicilians in Arena. In fact I prefer to play against them because they don't have solid counters in early imp, so long as you bring a few halbs. The issue is that if they build units they fall behind in the boom, and if they boom they die in early imp.

[theworld]

5th TC is a liability because it postpones IMP. If the opponent does a timing attack with faster IMP how exactly are you going to defend?

Also, how exactly would you defend vs Turks 20 min IMP 1 TC with Hand Cannoneers?

[yuzhonglu]

I just beat it. Like 5 minutes ago. 3 TC boom, 4 archer range skirm production, use 21 sargeants from First Crusade to kill or chase the bombards and the skirms to kill the jans.

Once you kill off the first push, mass knights and its all over. Doesn't matter if you lose your sargeants so long as you kill the first push.

The fifth TC can be built during the age up to imp just for the units. Most of the boom is on 4 TCs.