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Sorry, but your analogy is complete garbage.
Correlation between age and physique is definitely WAAAAAAY stronger than that between number of games played and skill / elo on DE. And physique is undoubtedly one of the key factors in sports.
https://preview.redd.it/3v9qk3134o851.png?width=1954&format=png&auto=webp&s=efdfccccc2785c8367b856fda4cdbed43381fbac
Adults are obligated to protect kids, so in general they dont put kids and grown ups together, unless that kid is a god.
Using this as an analogy just shows how dumb you are.
No system is perfect. StarCraft has you "start at the bottom" if you lost all 5 qualifying matches. Then you get dropped into Bronze and need to work your way up. However this system is only good for utterly hopeless(losing all 5 matches) and experienced/talented players(winning all 5 throws in you Plat). For everyone else they still get "smashed" while floating ranks until they finally settle. Then it's a massive pain to actually break out of your league. E.g. I'm an experienced RTS player and was highly competitive in Broodwar. Come SC2 Season 1, I blasted through with 5 qualifier wins and was put in Plat. After winning my next 3 games(for a total streak of 8) I was put in bottom of Diamond. From there it literally took me 10 matches a day (60/40 win/lose) for a month before I climbed near the top of Diamond.
Now you have "average" people playing, say they win 3/5 qualifiers and thrown in Gold/Silver; they win their next 4 matches and are placed in Gold/Plat; then they lose 3 in a row and get dropped to Silver/Bronze, they streak for 4 and Rank back up, then lose 5 and drop... and the cycle continues until, after ~50-100 games they finally get placed in a League relative to their skill level so they aren't streaking as much. Now they are basically stuck there forever unless they decide to worship SC 2 and copy Pros. Sure for people that "just wanna have fun PvP" they finally found their place, but for people that like ranking up or being validated for improving... they need to make SC 2 their new job if they want to climb the Ladder.
Now look at AoE. You start arbitrarily at 1000 Elo(supposed to be "average") sure, you can face people up to ~1400 or as low as ~700. However, you find your "place" much faster; you don't fluctuate as bad unless you are an idiot RTS savant and it is much easier to "Rank up". You keep winning games, even if its a 50/50 and you'll gradually start playing against higher Elo players. If you managed to win those matches, your Elo will climb until you can't win against higher Elo players but you don't lose to lower Elo players.
Your "problem" is that you are just really bad. So you don't have a large pool of players near your Elo to play against. This is compound by you seemingly "confusing" the system since you are losing to players worse than you but sometimes winning against player better than you. IMO, this is where the ELO system is flawed, extreme/fringe players get shafted while everyone else has a good time. Compared to SC 2; where the "average" player is shafted but everyone above or below "average" has a stable time.
You are insulting people, now again. Can't be civil in the world over something as simple and unimportant as a video game...... huge reason why the world is as bad as it is lately.
So yeah reported you. Will be doing it again after this post due to your last one.
Lets just put me aside, lets take an athlete. Someone who plays lots of other sports. I imagine after joining a casual sports league, they'd probably be better than average very quickly. Probably they'd start off average, and be a top player within a few months. One sc2 player I watched a bit of did this, he started off above average and hit top 100 within a few months before he stopped playing.
If we take an ok athlete (I think I would fall in this example), they would probably start off good enough not to be a pure liability, but they'd be bad. In a few months, they'd be average to above average, but they'd probably never be great unless they spent the years required. Most sports I played were like this, I quickly hit above average but I was never great at any sport I played.
If we take a non athlete, yeah they'll probably suck for a long time. They'd probably start as a liability. But if they were really motivated and put in hard work in practice, in maybe 6 months they could hit the league average, and they could be a solid above average player within a year. If they play casually like you seem to, they'd probably get stuck below average. But that makes sense.
And then your analogy, if we take children, they will be bad. Uhmm..... are you 10? Why is this the analogy? Even if you were 10, its still not the same thing. Because 10 year olds in video games only have a mental disadvantage from their brain not being developed, but a really talented child can overcome that. A talented 10 year old baseball player is never going to overcome the fact that adults are 3x as strong as they are, unless they have like some major growth disorder or something..
Yeah completely and utterly disagree on everything except that I am bad
Your description of SC2 sounds great. Average players in SC2 floating between Gold and Silver is more than enough for an easy going recreational player. They will consistently be playing similar players with the rare player on their way up to the higher levels.
Your own experience proves my point. You were an experienced SC1 player, so you "blasted" through the qualifying and landed in plat.... way ahead of lesser players you had no business playing. In diamond, against really good players, you played a bunch and even got above that. Sounds perfect. You clearly are a really good player and spent next to no time in the metal leagues and were up into diamond quickly where the really good players are. Then at such a high level you had to grind to get to the level you thought you belonged at.... which was an elite level.
Your problem was for people who wanted "validation" for being super high ranked, they needed to make it their job?? It is a game that people play for huge cash prizes and is almost a national sport in a country..... Yeah to be near the best in that game, it would be a full time job. For the vast, vast majority of recreational players, that system has players playing similar players consistently and as they improve they can gradually move up. The very idea of tiers gives players great motivation to play..... "Hey I am in Bronze and it would be a great accomplishment for me to make silver" . Seems like a great experience for people who are not looking to make a career of playing a game and just want to have some fun after work.
BTW why when I say I am bad, everyone feels the need to pile on and crap on me. I said I am bad.
Your point about how bad I am also proves my point..... the game runs off lesser players because of this system. They would rather not play or play the AI then play online. SC2 has no shortage of players at the lower tiers. They are not getting run off and clearly plenty are enjoying playing in the metal levels. Is that not the point? Let people enjoy the game and get better playing it? The fact that "you have no one to play because you are REALLY BAD" only reinforces the point that this system is not very good unless the goal is to force out lesser players.
Just that after the placement games he was placed at 850 ELO, when he should have been placed at 700 ELO. Arguably, there weren't enough placement games, or his K-factor should have been bigger for longer.
I really would be surprised if bigbarge has bad experience in his next 20 games.
Plz do get back to us in a month and tell us how they went =)
https://aoe2.net/#profile-76561198800757018
GM : 0%
Master : 4.3%
Diamond : 21.7%
Plat : 21.3%
Gold : 20.8%
Silver : 22.5%
Bronze :9.5%
Except in practice, they really aren't. E.g. Silvers don't really know how to Rush or counter Rushes, while Gold players often blindly Rush or blindly copy Pros without understanding why a Pro is doing X or Y. So what happens is a Silver floats to Gold and gets wiped in ~7 minutes and booted backed to Silver.
You really think it's fun and encouraging to people to see a Rank Up only to get Demoted in 2-3 matches? This is the problem with SC 2 Ladder, "floating" is actually bad because you actually aren't playing against similar skilled players. You could be Bronze and beat a Silver not because you were more skilled but because the Silver was having a bad game. So you get promoted to Silver only to be kicked back down to Bronze because you actually aren't at Silver level yet.
You must have missed the part where I said this is where SC 2 Ladder system is good for... the extreme cases. I wasn't an "average" player; thus the system was great for someone like me since I was able to quickly go Diamond; which is/was my skill level.
Again, where it's bad is for everyone else as they often "float" which is bad. "Floating" often means you aren't having even skilled matches. Furthermore the fact you need to play many many games with at least a 60/40 winrate just to climb a Ladder(to have a chance to break out of a League) is, IMO, horrible for casually competitive players. Then, to top it off, you worked hard, put in all that time, now you finally have a "breaker" match against someone in the bottom of the next League. You lose, guess what happens? You actually drop from the top of your current League and need to fight your way to the top again. You essentially need to be skilled enough to beat people in the next Tier but you can only regularly fight people of the same Tier. How can you accurately improve enough to fight someone better than you if you only fight same skilled people? (To borrow your analogy, how can a Little Leaguer face a College player if they only play against Little Leaguers?)
...and this isn't even mentioning MMR/Rank decay.
Except it's really not. My problem was the SC 2 system basically punishes "average" people for being, well, "average". They "Float" much longer and often don't have good experiences. Often new player's only motivation for trying to Rank is hoping that "one day I'll be an E-sports legend!". That's why, if you noticed, most Players aren't playing Ranked. They are playing Casuals/Customs; and once major Pros started leaving SC 2 the player counts significantly dropped.
AoE's ELO system is where "recreational players" actually have consistent experiences and will gradually move up if they improve. Much faster than in SC 2.
Because this is why you are having the experience you are having. The root issue isn't the system. The problem is that your gameplay is confusing the system. You are a fringe case, that slipped through a crack. You consistently lose to people who are the same/lower Elo than you... yet you'll win against people with same/higher Elo. Thus the system doesn't want to put you at higher Elos since you can't beat same/lower Elos, yet it doesn't want to drop you further since you also win against same/higher Elos.
You basically created a paradox for the system; you are bad so it should drop you lower but you are also better than other players so it needs to push you higher.
If you bothered to follow the great advice and tips people gave you on your gameplay.... you'd likely win more consistently and move up in Elo. Instead of being in this limbo where you play worse than "same skill" players yet win against "better" players.
TLDR: Honestly the more this thread goes on... your responses make it seem you want to blame the system because you want want an experience not intended for Ranked. You seemingly want a "fun and recreational match" yet also want a competitive environment so "you can improve and get better". People playing Ranked don't want "recreational" matches; they want to win because "winning is fun!11!" so they'll do whatever they can to win.
If you want "fun and recreational" then play Unranked. But you don't want that because "I face people better than me and it's not fun"... so you basically want Unranked with all the perks of Ranked. Which isn't going to happen. Your only options are to either A) get better at the game. Or B) host custom games and find like-minded players. EDIT: This is why I do option B. SC 2 burned me out on competitive play and I'm honestly bad at AoE since I can't Micro both Eco and Combat. So I find people that just want to screw around/do whatever and we do FFAs or weird TG's that let you betray each other.
When I started sc2, I was bad enough I couldn't beat the brood war ai. With cheats. I had to use power overwhelming, infinite money wasn't good enough.
Then, the simple fact that I cared to improve and watched enough high level play to understand the simple concepts of "spend money" and "build workers", meant I got placed into gold league after I was done with that whole practice league they had (and I did like only 4v4s in the practice league).
My climb from gold league to diamond was like, probably a week to get to platinum, and maybe a month to get to diamond. I didn't play a lot, and honestly I didn't even put that much effort into improving. Its just that after you play against a crappy 4 game 30 games in a row, when you play against it the 31st time from someone a league above you, the only difference is you have to try. Honestly plat players were easier to beat than silver ones, because they did the same 2-3 allins every ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ game with 100% consistency and the only reason it took a month for me to get out was my low play time.
Also this whole idea that you play a promotion series against people better and get crushed back down to your league, that doesn't happen. There's silver players who can play games better than golds and golds who play worse than silvers and playstyles that work better or worse agianst you.
And that's not how it works in the first place. I went back and played a bit of sc2 a few months ago. In my ranking matches, I played against 3 diamonds and 2 plats. Won 4 of them and then 1 I just didn't feel like playing and left. Got placed into silver for some reason. Play a game, I'm up against a platinum player and win again.
You don't play against people in your league 100% of games. In fact, in my entire starcraft experience, the only time I spent playing people in my league more often than not was in diamond league. There, it was like 75% diamond 12.5% plat 12.5% masters.
The players you play against work the same way as in aoe 2. You play against players of even skill. If you win, you play against someone better. You don't play against players even skill repeatedly for 100 games until suddenly you win 1 and they jump 10 miles above you. That's not how it works. There's an mmr system, and you will play against players who average your mmr.
The only major difference is that it placement is more volatile. You with 5 wins get placed into diamond, and 5 losses is bronze. Whereas in aoe 2, the equivalent would be 5 losses is silver and 5 wins is plat.
Basically the only difference I think actually exists in starcraft is that the K value HongeyKong mentioned was higher.
The thing about non-ranked games is you can check their profile before actually playing them. So you decide who you play against. I think this is a good way for you even if you are wasting a bit of time since you don't think the elo system is fair. Again this is just a suggestion and hosting/joining games aren't that much longer than rank queue and can be even faster.
Again this ties into what i am trying to say earlier. Ranked 1v1 is the most competitive thing in the community. The worst players aren't playing ranked queue, but offline with bots or online with some people and bots. So in terms of 1v1 ranked you are at the bottom of the barrel, but you might be like bottom 20% or something if you just play regulars. I know this because i mainly play regular and 1/20 games there will be a guy that doesn't even know what a boar lure is. Just from that you are already better.
I don't want to be that guy, but he really is that bad at least in the ranked 1v1 setting. He's bottom 0.1% and he is complaining that the match system is flawed instead of thinking maybe this is a "me problem".
I mean starting somewhere in the middle is probably the way to go because it reduces the number of games that most people will have to play to get to their actual elo. In this setting, pros need to win fewer games, generally noobs just lose a couple of games and middle tier players are already in their natural elo.
I should have made it more clear from the onset; so my bad and I apologize from creating the misunderstanding, I only played 1v1 Ranked and from Seasons 0-2. (I count the Closed Beta Ladder as Season 0; There was Diamond League but no Masters or GM Leagues yet)
So I honestly don't know exact changes to the system and how it has been for the past few years. (As the system was further refined after Season 1 and there was a small issue during Season 2 but I actually quit during Season 2 for a bunch of reasons) Now compound this with me basically going straight to Diamond after ~10 matches... and I don't "really" know the experience people have sub Plat. I mostly took the word of forum posts/lobby chat and a couple of friends that were Golds/Plat that complained about the system being bad for average people.
Thus why I felt the system was great for people who weren't "average" as you were quickly dropped into the League relative of your Skill Level. However breaking into Masters was practically impossible since if I lost a match while in top Diamond; I'd be dropped ~5-10 places and need to climb back up again.(as, at the time, only the Top ~20 Diamond Leaguers have the ability to enter Masters) My friends were saying the same thing about Gold/Plat and were constantly complaining about being Demoted a League shortly after being Promoted. Since that felt similar to my experience I just took their word for it and thought that kind of experience was the norm.
So I could be utterly wrong about the system by being biased due to my experience with it. I've always felt AoE's traditional ELO system was better as it seemingly creates a more stable and consistent experience.
As I said previously; IMO, the OP's problem isn't the system itself. The problem is that his gameplay and the experience he wants to have conflicts with the Ranked system in general. Not only does he have a small pool of players around his Elo but he seemingly doesn't want to take matches seriously and prefers a more casual match experience. Which is rather counter-intuitive to Ranked. Unranked would be a much better place for him to play but then he'll run into people who've only played AI or "Pros" that want to take a breather from Ranked. Hence, I suggested trying to find like-minded people to play Unranked with so he can get the experience he wants. (Which is basically what I do since I'm probably around ~1300 Elo and honestly just want to have fun matches and screw around doing stupid things lol)
Elo distribution for age2(couple months old so the distribution is slighty different now)
https://i.redd.it/t2m43clweiq41.jpg
Its not in %, but if we consider 1k elo to be the average(silver if i were to give a rank), then you can clearly see about half the population is in the lower half(median is actually a bit under 1.1k). Its pretty much the same as SC2 in proportion give or take. Clearly age has plenty of players in the lower division too.
Your elo hovers around 700 so its clear to see that you don't have a lot of players to choose from. This is why i am suggesting to play normal. Age community is much smaller than SC2 so it doesnt have the luxury to give you thousands of players to choose from in the lower division like SC2 does.