Skirmisher spam... -.-

[Catbeard Beardcat]

Playing vs. KI on middle, the KI just spams wave after wave of skirmishers from each direction and corner of it's base. I have mostly a larger and better army when attacking his base, but I can't stand the constant spam of skirmishers from everywhere. I attack mostly with knights, fully upgraded, but in 4 of 5 cases I'm getting my ass whipped by 176532578 Skirmishers from hell.

[Morvana]

Skirmishers are one of the worst unit. The only moment they realy shine is against archers. They have a low DPS, low raw domages, low HP...

Are you sure it was only skirmishers ? Unless he had 100 of them against 10 knights (and in that case it's your fault to take this engagment), it's hard to belive they could kill fully upgraded knights (if it was paladins they do what ? 1 or 2 domages per shot ? You could even win against 100 of them...)

With your enemy had a few pikemans I can understand.

[jonoliveira12]

Originally posted by Morvana:

Skirmishers are one of the worst unit. The only moment they realy shine is against archers. They have a low DPS, low raw domages, low HP...

Are you sure it was only skirmishers ? Unless he had 100 of them against 10 knights (and in that case it's your fault to take this engagment), it's hard to belive they could kill fully upgraded knights (if it was paladins they do what ? 1 or 2 domages per shot ? You could even win against 100 of them...)

With your enemy had a few pikemans I can understand.

Skirmishesr are good vs all Archery Range units (including the Hand Cannoneer) and have bonus damage vs the Spearman line.

Skirmishers counter a huge portion of the Tech Tree, and are so much of a necessity, that Turks players always complain about not having Elite Skirmishers, as they only have Hussars for lategame trash.

[Morvana]

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

Skirmishesr are good vs all Archery Range units (including the Hand Cannoneer) and have bonus damage vs the Spearman line.

Skirmishers counter a huge portion of the Tech Tree, and are so much of a necessity, that Turks players always complain about not having Elite Skirmishers, as they only have Hussars for lategame trash.

I don't say Skirmishers are useless, It's my favorite unit to be fair. But you will lose your fight against anything which isn't an archer if you use only them.

They are strong support unit, but you can't use them alone. Against knights like Bevle said it should be a total disaster for the skirmishers.

[jonoliveira12]

Originally posted by Morvana:

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

Skirmishesr are good vs all Archery Range units (including the Hand Cannoneer) and have bonus damage vs the Spearman line.

Skirmishers counter a huge portion of the Tech Tree, and are so much of a necessity, that Turks players always complain about not having Elite Skirmishers, as they only have Hussars for lategame trash.

I don't say Skirmishers are useless, It's my favorite unit to be fair. But you will lose your fight against anything which isn't an archer if you use only them.

They are strong support unit, but you can't use them alone. Against knights like Bevle said it should be a total disaster for the skirmishers.

True, but always remember that they also melt Halberdiers, so an Elite Skirmisher + Hussar/Elite Eagle Warrior is the best offensive army when you have no Gold.

[Capybara]

You say you have a "larger army", so more numbers
of fully upgraded knights.

Skirmishers do exactly 1 dmg to your knights, plus they don't have perfect accuracy, plus they cannot attack in melee range.
That means each knight of yours will survive at least 120 skirmisher shots. More than enough to close the gap (remember, skirms can't attack in melee range) with your knights (remember, they are larger in number than your opponent's skirmishers).



Alright something doesn't add up here. Focus more on improving your play than complaining about units. More than likely it is not the game's balance that is at fault here, but your own mistakes.

[jonoliveira12]

Originally posted by Capybara:

You say you have a "larger army", so more numbers
of fully upgraded knights.

Skirmishers do exactly 1 dmg to your knights, plus they don't have perfect accuracy, plus they cannot attack in melee range.
That means each knight of yours will survive at least 120 skirmisher shots. More than enough to close the gap (remember, skirms can't attack in melee range) with your knights (remember, they are larger in number than your opponent's skirmishers).



Alright something doesn't add up here. Focus more on improving your play than complaining about units. More than likely it is not the game's balance that is at fault here, but your own mistakes.

He likely lost the Knights to Castle/Tower fire, while the Skirmishers distracted them.

[Cacomistle]

Originally posted by Capybara:

You say you have a "larger army", so more numbers
of fully upgraded knights.

Skirmishers do exactly 1 dmg to your knights, plus they don't have perfect accuracy, plus they cannot attack in melee range.
That means each knight of yours will survive at least 120 skirmisher shots. More than enough to close the gap (remember, skirms can't attack in melee range) with your knights (remember, they are larger in number than your opponent's skirmishers).



Alright something doesn't add up here. Focus more on improving your play than complaining about units. More than likely it is not the game's balance that is at fault here, but your own mistakes.

The ai doesn't spam pure skirmisher. They spam a lot of skirmishers with a few pikemen.

Plus the ai probably just has way more stuff. Ai macro isn't perfect, but its probably better than 90-95% of the players out there. This game is particularly punishing to players who don't know how to build an economy. A top level player could actually get out on the other of 4-5 times as many units as a new player, with better upgrades and a higher age.

Also knights? Not Cavalier? That doesn't sound fully upgraded, and imperial age skirmishers will deal 3 damage instead of 1 to knights (same amount a crossbow does, although ofc they fire slower).

[Catbeard Beardcat]

Originally posted by Capybara:

Alright something doesn't add up here. Focus more on improving your play than complaining about units. More than likely it is not the game's balance that is at fault here, but your own mistakes.

I'm not complaining or demanding to “fix“ this because I suck. I just wanted to know how to handle this. The KI has mostly 5+ archer buildings in it's base and is pumping skirms + cav for support. I succeded a few times but often enough I just give up because my army is melting away.

[Capybara]

Fair enough

I'd assume the problem is that the AI produces faster and can macro-manage more units at once and therefore seems to send troops to all parts of the map constantly

You could try slowing down the game speed (+/- keys) if you want more time to see what's going on and react

Most importantly you need to match the unit production:

1) Build more production buildings. If you are using 2 or 3 stables right now, get 6. If you are using 5 stables right now, get 10. Have a control group with all your stables.Have units queued up in each of them (select the control group then shift+click on knights multiple times). Have a rally point that sends your units right into or in front of the opponent's base.

2) Build forward production. Don't build an army in your base, gather it and then send it to the enemy. Have forward production close to the opponent, potentially protected by castles.