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Nowadays, most of them have ALL of the following problems :
- extremely slow gameplay
- frequent and/or long loading time
- outdated graphics
- outdated and slow character interactions, mostly because of the visual novel approach
- outdated gameplay in general
- areas are tiny and unconnected (separated by loading screens).
- extremely grindy
- bad difficulty curve
The next big JRPG this year with very decent graphics (Unreal Engine 4), good characters and gameplay is Dragon Quest XI. Maybe that fits better for you.
Main reason why the quality of (non SE or ATLUS) JRPG dropped over the years is because most fans ALWAYS has an excuse for their flaws. This then lowers the standard of quality to the point where a mediocre game became a "great" game.
Excuses ranges from, "It's a budget title", "It's a parody", "It's not made by SE or ATLUS" to "Why can't you be happy there's English translated JRPGs on Steam instead of b*tching?"
I mean, look at the NEPTUNIA series, Fairy Fencer F or OMEGA QUINTET. Their fans always says it's just a "parody" of otaku culture, as if it gives them a free pass for being a "bad" JRPG.
Well, not that I entirely disagree with them often being low budget and all but....most of the best games from last year were all jRPGs, so....
I guess that means the west is doing even worse?
For:
-Falcom: you missed Ys VIII. Their first Ys game with a strong story. Also their largest gameworld. It might not be the high standards of visuals we are used to in the west, but they are certainly moving forward.
-FF: if it doesnt feel like a FF game, then that means they arent stuck in the past, right? And as far as visuals go, they trump most of the western companies pretty easily.
-Tales: they actually improved their formula and made up for a major blunder of a game.
Also, you forgot:
-Nioh. Thats certainly not an old style jRPG.
-Yakuza 0: also not exactly your average jRPG.
Both of the above have pretty good visuals.
Pillars of Eternity is the very symbol of ''stuck in the past'' as they took many of the worst mechanics and features of old western RPGs instead of taking what made them good.
I dont even know Tyranny.
~~~but the rest sounds about right. Might of forgotten about something somewhere tho.
While I agree with you, traditionally Persona has always been one of the worst when it comes to its dungeon designs.
That one I'm just not seeing. Lots of character interactions are a staple of RPGs, not even just jRPGs. The 'visual novel approach' doesnt make it particularly slow. Your going to have dialogue either way. 2D or 3D.
Eh, idiots exist as fans and haters. The reason the quality has dropped is mainly due to publishers and greed. And also because often the better 'artists' arent the ones making the big money. (or a project that is low budget)
Their fans always says it's just a "parody" of otaku culture, as if it gives them a free pass for being a "bad" JRPG. [/quote]
This is a good example of my point earlier. Those games are indeed a parody, which is their main selling point. That doesnt excuse any low quality, but on the other hand its not like people are expecting others to buy it either. Higher quality games would be very nice to have, but for the most part fandoms for games like those just arent too fussed about things. They are niche of niche games after all. Whether they are good or bad games its not going to affect the market at a large.
So the point here: your an idiot for thinking fans are the reason jRPGs are ''getting worse''
Not because you are a hater, but because idiots exist everywhere, and you just happen to be one of them.There's many fan idiots too.
Many people (the idiots) are blind to either a games flaws, or its good points. And we can really do without these kinds of people.
k
I wouldn't consider Soulsborne as jRPG, it's more western themed.
Instead, I'd use Persona, because it's probably the second most recognizable jRPG series in the west.
Haven't played Lacrimosa of Dana yet (waiting for decent sale, because I'm not going to pay NISA for what they have done to it full price), but I've heard that VIII story went so convoluted, that it's even harder to relate it with the rest of the series.
Yes, FF aren't stuck in the past, but considering how "bad" XIII trilogy is and how unpolished XV on the release was, I think I'd rather have SE stop making games at all.
Who cares about the visuals and music, when the rest of the game is meh?
I hope that the next Tales of will be a bigger step forward.
I'm not sure about considering Nioh as jRPG.
I'm aware that it was developed in Japan and the game is about japanese mythology, but gameplay wise and dark fantasy atmosphere makes me think about it as just action RPG about japanese folkore.
As for Yakuza - is it even RPG? Never played it, but it looked more like action-adventure game.
I haven't mentioned NieR: Automata before, because some folks doesn't consider it as RPG (because the upgrades are necessary only on the highest difficulty).
Indeed it is, because it was the point to bring back good, old isometric, boring combat and great stories RPGs. :P
Tbh I'd like if someone expand the ideas for Knights of the Old Republic combat (active pause with queue for character actions).
It's not the visual novel approach what makes them feel slow.
Tbh I'm not sure if any recent jRPG feels particrarly slow with dialogues.
RPGs are suppose to have more dialogues than other genres, although the aRPGs have lesser amout of them.
But there's still that feeling that something lowers the immersion in them and it's the lack voiced dialogues.
Reading all the textboxes these days isn't as entertaining as it used to be.
That and silent protagonist/MC thing.
Good thing that the major dialogues and skits in Tales of are voiced.
Final Fantasy also took the note about it.
But these games have one of the most profitable publishers behind them, they could pretty sure afford recording the rest.
Kinda sad that Atlus didn't make it with Persona 5, but they weren't contracted with Sega for publishing the game.
On the technical side it has a few flaws but that's okay for me. The loading screens are very short and the anime style is pretty much timeless. The only bummer for me was the lack of Pro support and the bad anti-aliasing. I still hope for a pc port :(
Oh I agree. I assumed part of the OP's argument was related to visuals.
Ys VIII's story isnt convoluted, but it does have (mostly) different background lore from the rest of the games. Its a slow starting plot with reveals and plotwists later on.
I think one of the complaints some have (which I think your referring to with convoluted) is that there's too much story. But that is a complaint from those who only played Ys for its action.
It still feels like a Ys game...just more then ''action and some lore fragments in the background'' like it used to. So its a good example of a series that isnt stuck in the past. (anymore)
Fair enough. It is quite lacking in the (rpg-style) character interaction after all.
I havent played it either so no idea. Yakuza is definately an RPG tho. Lots and lots of stuff to do, with quests and all that. Really looking forward to getting Yakuza 0 on steam in 2 weeks.
https://store.steampowered.com/app/638970/
Yeah indeed. The older western rpgs did do a whole bunch of things right, and some of them werent explored further. I'd rather developers bring those back then crap like ''x spells per day''
I've red quite the negative numbers of opinions about P5 characters and story (to the point that it reduced my hype for the game).
I'll still check it out, but I have lower expectations for the game.
I hope that VIII have the option to skip the dialogues.
If there are as much (or even more) text boxes than in Origin, where at times it became annoying (repeating the boss fights while getting through all the dialogues).
You know, The Legend of Zelda games are also have quests and yet these are not considered as role playing games, but are classified as action adventure.
Does the mc in Yakuza gets exp? Or loot from the enemies? Any upgrades for equipement and stats?
Having some of the rpg mechanics doesn't make it a rpg yet.
That doesn't change the fact that it's less interesting, I'm also looking forward to play it.
Also, with Sega porting Yakuza series to Steam there's also a chance that they would port Fist of the Nort Star game based on Yakuza gameplay later which would be cool.
Do You have something in particular on your mind?
Indeed. Despite loving lots of dialogue in a game myself, skip/fast forward options are really a must have.
Dont recall if Ys VIII has one, but I dont recall it being a problem (and I did have to retry some bosses lots) so probably?
Hmm, I had at some point (long before this topic) but I forgot.
I guess one of them would be more interesting (and better written) story driven plot. The Neverwinter Night games had a very interesting main story, and something like that is just too rare in western RPGs these days. Lots of options and customization is nice too, but without a good plot I just cant get into an RPG.
I'd say what they did right most of all was the characters feeling like they are part of the story/world on their own, and not just ''the main characters servants'' ; way more interesting world/lore, and way more interesting story. And way more fantasy.
Reason I never finished Oblivion or really played Skyrim. Too much focus on 'make your own character' so theres not enough background/character to the PC.
Right now I cant recall anything that was never explored at all, tho
I guess maybe going to different planes/worlds as part of the story (or even regular gameplay).
Or otherwise vastly different places, maybe in far away parts of the world or such.
I recall the parts I enjoyed the most about Neverwinter nights 1 & 2 was going to the different planes and dealing beings that were just way different from what you were used to in the rest of the game. In games like Age of Wonders as well.
Not enough fantasy in western rpgs these days, imo. (that applies to a lot of jrpgs as well tho) They are just too low-fantasy for me. But thats a personal preference I guess.
Oh, the first NVN. Never bothered to finish it, because it was boring. So can't confirm myself if the main plot was well written, but everything else that game does is uninteresting.
Haven't tried the expansions, maybe those were better than the main game.
Same with NVN2, but I'd be pretty sure it might be worth checking, since Obsidian are behind that one.
I agree that without good plot there's lower interest with the game (unless it's combat driven, but even those requires some basic fillars being properly made to not make player skipping it).
Never touched any TES, because these are not exactly my kind of rpg cup.
Ah, I see. Knights of the Old Republic does that too, as well as Mass Effect.
Depends on what do You mean by fantasy. I'm kinda bored with medieval based settings in western RPGs while jRPGs could do more adult/mature stuff.
And there's also romancing - it's fine as long as it's optional, but using it as way to ulock the main background of main character shouldn't happen (which is what I don't like in neo Persona games).