Is this actually a strategy game?

[Jack4D]

I got really fed up with the previous UoC as it seemed to basically be a puzzle game, with one solution for each mission. Is that still the case?

[vicentlazar]

Not to the same extent. You have more ways to complete objectives in this one, assign specialist steps, use your assets, etc. The HQ mechanic is particularly versatile. You are still time-restricted of course to capture some objectives but on the whole, having played both I would say this game is a vast improvement on UoC1. I really recommend it!

[Hexaboo]

One thing that could make UoC2 more attractive to you is the presence of four difficulty levels. The easier ones still present a challenge, but the time constraints are laxer, and you have a broader selection of options and assets that you can use.

[Nase36Nase]

in my opinion its a strategy game. you have to make your choices between different "layers", where, when (next turn my units are supplied), and how. also you can spend prestige to give a portion of the front support units. there isnt just one solution .

also if i loose, i what to restart the map again asap, because now i know better, know i have a stronger "strategy".

[Red Dragon]

Definitely a lot less puzzle like than the first. Your choices carry over from one scenario to another and from one conference to the next.

[Apocalypse]

The new, Blitzkrieg DLC is back to Puzzle.

You know by the 2nd or 3rd turn if you're going to lose the scenario.

I'm not sure why the developers reverted back to this style of scenario design.

[Gerfreckle]

Originally posted by Apocalypse:

The new, Blitzkrieg DLC is back to Puzzle.

You know by the 2nd or 3rd turn if you're going to lose the scenario.

I'm not sure why the developers reverted back to this style of scenario design.

I enjoyed the Poland and Norway missions, but by god is the Low Countries one an absolute nightmare. I've made four or five serious attempts at it and failed badly every time. The level of defence and entrenchment of all the enemy infantry divisions is insane, and fully-manned armoured divisions keep showing up to annihilate my supposedly good Panzers and motorised. Historically speaking the Low Countries campaign was one of the biggest push-overs for the Germans, so it's strange that the devs decided to make it so incredibly difficult and sluggish (in my opinion). I'm getting the feeling that there's precisely ONE correct way to do it, and every other way is doomed to fail. I never really got that impression with the base game (except maybe Market Garden, but that's understandable in that specific level).

[charles_d_berger]

Hi all, I was one of the scenario designers for the DLC. Here's how I see it... after playing my own scenario say a couple of dozen times, you tend to gravitate around a standard set of opening moves. But here's the thing: sometimes those work, and sometimes they just don't, and you have to improvise on the fly to win the battle. I've been delighted to see players already beating my scenarios in ways I hadn't even thought of. (And equally delighted to seeing the AI inflict some crushing defeats too!)

So if a puzzle is something that only has one solution, for me it doesn't describe the game. Players are cracking these battles in new and unexpected ways, and even what I had thought was close to an "ideal" opening sometimes isn't.

Gerfreckle: the Low Countries is definitely hard! The Netherlands wasn't quite a push-over historically. The airborne surprise attack mostly failed, and it's not clear the Wehrmacht was going to win easily. The bombardment of Rotterdam forced a Dutch surrender, not the collapse of the Dutch army.

As for Belgium... don't forget the armored battles around Hannut and Gembloux. The Germans succeeded in tying down Allied forces, but they took substantial losses doing so. The German 3rd & 4th Panzer divisions lost around half their panzer strength in these hard-fought battles. So also not quite a pushover!

Stick with it, it's definitely do-able. Good AT capability on your units in the south helps a lot, and your panzers can shield your infantry from the initial French onslaught. Personally, I like to use any extra air cards I have in this battle...

[Apocalypse]

Originally posted by charles_d_berger:

Hi all, I was one of the scenario designers for the DLC. Here's how I see it... after playing my own scenario say a couple of dozen times, you tend to gravitate around a standard set of opening moves. But here's the thing: sometimes those work, and sometimes they just don't, and you have to improvise on the fly to win the battle. I've been delighted to see players already beating my scenarios in ways I hadn't even thought of. (And equally delighted to seeing the AI inflict some crushing defeats too!)

So if a puzzle is something that only has one solution, for me it doesn't describe the game. Players are cracking these battles in new and unexpected ways, and even what I had thought was close to an "ideal" opening sometimes isn't.

Gerfreckle: the Low Countries is definitely hard! The Netherlands wasn't quite a push-over historically. The airborne surprise attack mostly failed, and it's not clear the Wehrmacht was going to win easily. The bombardment of Rotterdam forced a Dutch surrender, not the collapse of the Dutch army.

As for Belgium... don't forget the armored battles around Hannut and Gembloux. The Germans succeeded in tying down Allied forces, but they took substantial losses doing so. The German 3rd & 4th Panzer divisions lost around half their panzer strength in these hard-fought battles. So also not quite a pushover!

Stick with it, it's definitely do-able. Good AT capability on your units in the south helps a lot, and your panzers can shield your infantry from the initial French onslaught. Personally, I like to use any extra air cards I have in this battle...

I think there is a balance between a scenario that is challenging and just plain hard.

These scenarios cross that line. They aren't challenging; just difficult and not fun. I don't think its fun that I have to lose a scenario 3 or 4 times- in many cases one turn away from winning- to figure out the 'code' that I have crack to win.

There is no lee-way for the player; a bad turn is instant defeat, and a mediocre turn may even be cause for a total scenario restart.


I'm also interested to see how players are cracking Low Countries by using different approaches. I dont believe it.

[ammianus]

https://ibb.co/GQP7DF1

Here you go!

[Hexaboo]

Low Countries has its sticking points but it isn't impossible (this is on Classic):

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2281226278

Dutch Capitulation/Eben Emael/Antwerpen on Turn 1, then an armoured thrust through Namur.

Just wait for Sickle Stroke, that one is more likely to get steam coming out of your ears! ;)

(Oh, and I will publish a video guide on the historic branch of the DLC, starting with Low Countries, next week! :) )

[Cptn_Miller]

Originally posted by charles_d_berger:

Hi all, I was one of the scenario designers for the DLC. Here's how I see it... after playing my own scenario say a couple of dozen times, you tend to gravitate around a standard set of opening moves. But here's the thing: sometimes those work, and sometimes they just don't, and you have to improvise on the fly to win the battle. I've been delighted to see players already beating my scenarios in ways I hadn't even thought of. (And equally delighted to seeing the AI inflict some crushing defeats too!)

So if a puzzle is something that only has one solution, for me it doesn't describe the game. Players are cracking these battles in new and unexpected ways, and even what I had thought was close to an "ideal" opening sometimes isn't.

Gerfreckle: the Low Countries is definitely hard! The Netherlands wasn't quite a push-over historically. The airborne surprise attack mostly failed, and it's not clear the Wehrmacht was going to win easily. The bombardment of Rotterdam forced a Dutch surrender, not the collapse of the Dutch army.

As for Belgium... don't forget the armored battles around Hannut and Gembloux. The Germans succeeded in tying down Allied forces, but they took substantial losses doing so. The German 3rd & 4th Panzer divisions lost around half their panzer strength in these hard-fought battles. So also not quite a pushover!

Stick with it, it's definitely do-able. Good AT capability on your units in the south helps a lot, and your panzers can shield your infantry from the initial French onslaught. Personally, I like to use any extra air cards I have in this battle...

Your "view" of History is way off, low countries were an absolute push over, main thrust north of magiot line thru ardennes, its the pinnacle of Blitzkrieg, and ended in the failure of Dunkirk due to Hitler.

[charles_d_berger]

Originally posted by Cptn_Miller:

Originally posted by charles_d_berger:

Your "view" of History is way off, low countries were an absolute push over, main thrust north of magiot line thru ardennes, its the pinnacle of Blitzkrieg, and ended in the failure of Dunkirk due to Hitler.

Yes, that's the big picture, and we all know the main thrust through the Ardennes was a stunning success. But the "Low Countries" scenario isn't about it, it's about the fighting on the Belgian plains north of the Ardennes. There, the Germans were stopped cold at the Gembloux Gap. Losses were heavy on both sides, and the Germans failed to penetrate the Dyle Line. Tactical German defeat - but a strategic German victory in that the Allied forces engaged there were unable to respond to the main thrust further south.

I think there is a certain view of history that all of Germany's conquests were inevitable, because the Wehrmacht was superior in all respects and could simply roll over its enemies.

Not only would that make for a very boring game, but it's not true! The Germans were checked very often in these early campaigns, and their infantry was frequently no better than their opponents.

[Grahor]

The game is a puzzle, and I enjoy it greatly. :)

[Nase36Nase]

low countries took me 7 times to finally to complete. without hexaboo i wouldnt have known the code. (on normal) YOU HAVE to make dutch capitulation and the city in the south on first turn.

3 of 7 times i did dutch surrender on turn one but without the city in the south on turn one.

i think its impossible to finish the map on normal withouth doing dutch surrende+city in the south on turn one.

[charles_d_berger]

Originally posted by Nase36Nase:

low countries took me 7 times to finally to complete. without hexaboo i wouldnt have known the code. (on normal) YOU HAVE to make dutch capitulation and the city in the south on first turn.

3 of 7 times i did dutch surrender on turn one but without the city in the south on turn one.

i think its impossible to finish the map on normal withouth doing dutch surrende+city in the south on turn one.

Hi Nase - here's a you-tuber clearing the map by turn 7 on Classic difficulty. Didn't force Dutch surrender until turn 2.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQTsTiyeIqE

I like to clear the Dutch on turn 1 as well, but there are disadvantages of doing so... in truth the Dutch are a side-show; pocketing the large numbers of Allied troops around Brussels is more important.

Enjoy!