Is combat as bad as reviews claim?

[Yes, I have a Mic.]

Question in title.
Reviews say combat sucks a wild donkey ♥♥♥♥ in a Walmart parking lot.
Is there any truth to that?

[Donovan]

Depends on what you consider to be 'bad combat' honestly.

If you're willing to overlook the fact that when above 50% stability enemies pretty much suffer no stagger or interruption of their attacks from your own, and are willing to put up with a little bit of jank, then it's fine.

I'll honestly always be a massive promoter of Outward. It's a game that absolutely scratches a very unique sort of itch that no other game can really scratch, and if you have a friend to play with, the game is easily a thousand times more enjoyable.

[Gythric]

Some great games have "awful" combat. Morrowind comes to mind. Love that game though.

[Yeti]

Sounds like if they literally just reworked the combat a lot of people would love the game? I was wondering if creating macros to accomplish some of the combat mechanics would make it more enjoyable or if its beyond any repair?

This is a bummer because the other elements of the game sound amazing.

Hopefully they take the feedback and do something. Or just another money grab before the game is lost forever?

[Spudda]

No other game compares to this combat style.

In short this game's combat is based on synergy from your gear, skills, buffs, foods, and weapons.

This game's combat is based on using "skills" that are purchased. Most people who hate the combat haven't explored 25% of the game. This game is not linear its not meant to be your typical skyrim/darksouls steam roll through story then boom you have good gear. A lot of people give up early and leave a negative review and its pure bandwagon.

You will do some grinding for money to buy skills from different regions, You will use buffs which are either potions foods, or rags. You need a combination of skills and buffs to destroy the enemies in game. If not its going to take a while.

Do yourself a favor and looks up builds or gameplay of the mid game. So you can see the combat and don't worry about spoilers you'll forget about it by the time you play the game.

Early on the game is difficult for new comers. Even with starter gear I steam roll through the AI in the first region. This game is not meant for the "modern gamers".

And if you don't want to play the game legit and just want to have fun there is a debug menu where you can spawn items, teleport etc.

[Apocalypse]

The combat is slow and clunky but I like it tbh. But it's more about setting up the right situation beforehand instead of reacting quickly when you are already in a fight if things go wrong. So dying can be frustrating if you dont go at it the right way and it's easy to blame the combat, but it just takes a different approach a lot of the time. For some builds more than others tho

[Yes, I have a Mic.]

I have purchased the game as it was on sale and will post a review once I have spent at least ten hours on it.
I'm keeping an open mind.

EDIT: 45 minutes in... *sigh*

[Donovan]

The game is an absolute diamond in the rough, and from what I've seen, you will either fall in love with it or you'll absolutely hate it. Depends on how open-minded you are and how willing you are to overlook the rough edges and see the great things about the game shining through.

If you're the sort of person who prefers learning through trial and error and typically refuse to ask for tips from experienced players, you can safely ignore the rest of what I'm about to say.



I'd suggest as a first-time player that you stick to a one-handed weapon and shield setup to start with. One-handed axe gets you Talus Cleaver from Burac, one-handed sword gets Puncture. I honestly don't recommend the one-handed mace skill, a tad lackluster until you're familiar with how to properly predict incoming spells/attacks.

Second, drink water. Before you start running somewhere, before you start a fight, etc. Drink water. Also make sure you take advantage of cooking and beneficial foods that restore stamina, health, etc. Seafood-based dishes (Shrimp, fish, etc) generally provide mana restoration while most land-based meat foods provide health and/or stamina regeneration. Gaberry jam -> gaberry tartine is very powerful early on for stamina regeneration and quite cheap to make.

Consider picking up a bow to try and weaken/pick off enemies at range, but it takes a little bit to get used to using one, especially if you're trying to use it while locked on to a target. Otherwise can consider using some traps to shift the odds in your favor. Remember, a fair fight isn't a fair fight in Outward.

Keep an eye on an enemy's stability bar. Once it's below 50% any time they're hit they'll be interrupted from whatever they're trying to do such as cast a spell, attack, etc. Reducing it to 0 knocks them down for a few moments which will let you get some free damage in.

A good early-game combo is Push Kick -> attack (Or Talus Cleaver/Puncture if you've got one of those) to chunk off a decent amount of the target's stability. The usefulness falls of once you start encountering more difficult enemies later in the game such as some of the ones in Enmerkar Forest, but especially Abrassar Desert and Hallowed Marsh.

Finally, familiarize yourself with how breakthrough points work. Every trainer that can teach you skills will typically have their skills broken between the top and bottom of the window, with one in the middle that has chains to either side. That's a breakthrough skill and requires a breakthrough point to use. You only get three and no do-overs.

All the skills at the bottom of these windows can be learned, as many of them as you want, but skills at the top require you to have learned the breakthrough skill. Skills that are directly side-by-side are either-or choices, you can get one but never the other once you've made your choice.

Picking up Fitness from the Kazite Spellblade trainer in Cierzo is always a solid first-pick.

[Apocalypse]

Originally posted by Yes, I have a Mic.:

I have purchased the game as it was on sale and will post a review once I have spent at least ten hours on it.
I'm keeping an open mind.

EDIT: 45 minutes in... *sigh*

Are you winning, son?:P

[NickG]

yes

[bunies]

people who say the combat is bad in this game are just bad at combat

it honetsly doesn't get bad untill the 3 brothers dlc and that is mostly because enemies there are just giant damage sponges

[Yes, I have a Mic.]

Originally posted by bunies:

people who say the combat is bad in this game are just bad at combat

it honetsly doesn't get bad untill the 3 brothers dlc and that is mostly because enemies there are just giant damage sponges

I have played alittle more. Its not that.
I'm not even going to say its a deal breaker that combat is bad but so far... no charm. Thats what made me have to take a break and play Darkest Dungeon of all games.

I'm not sitting here thinking "Oh man, this inventory management is *awesome*!" or "Wow, that character was really funny and interesting to listen to!".
I just don't really know what I'm meant to be taking pleasure from so far. I hope it reveals itself soon.

I keep thinking of Fable and how much fun that was even though the combat was bad and the story mostly linear.
I know its not a 1:1 comparison but they did alot more with alot less.
I'm getting the creeping sensation the big draw is going to be a gameplay loop centred around simple tasks that stimulate short lived dopamine rushes.
I don't think the mining picks are going to be just for show. I think I've basically bought Runescape.
I don't like that and I really hope I'm wrong.

[Jake]

Personally I feel as if a lot of the negative reviews have gone into this expecting Dark Souls or other combat they're familiar with in games, I've had the hardest time with Combat until I stopped and started using traps and being clever about how I approached enemies, after all you are just a villager going up against monsters, guardians and trained militia.

[bunies]

Originally posted by Yes, I have a Mic.:

Originally posted by bunies:

people who say the combat is bad in this game are just bad at combat

it honetsly doesn't get bad untill the 3 brothers dlc and that is mostly because enemies there are just giant damage sponges

I have played alittle more. Its not that.
I'm not even going to say its a deal breaker that combat is bad but so far... no charm. Thats what made me have to take a break and play Darkest Dungeon of all games.

I'm not sitting here thinking "Oh man, this inventory management is *awesome*!" or "Wow, that character was really funny and interesting to listen to!".
I just don't really know what I'm meant to be taking pleasure from so far. I hope it reveals itself soon.

I keep thinking of Fable and how much fun that was even though the combat was bad and the story mostly linear.
I know its not a 1:1 comparison but they did alot more with alot less.
I'm getting the creeping sensation the big draw is going to be a gameplay loop centred around simple tasks that stimulate short lived dopamine rushes.
I don't think the mining picks are going to be just for show. I think I've basically bought Runescape.
I don't like that and I really hope I'm wrong.

A. fairly confident fable was made by a way way way bigger studio then this game

B. honestly i enjoyed the story and the world lore of the game, its fairly unique and refreshing and not a rehash of the same ♥♥♥♥ most other games have

C. the game very much does have a great variety of builds and ways to fight, and they are fairly different, I mean you can do full trap build if you want to, or do a gun/1 hander build, dagger/1 hander, gun rotation, variety of magic builds, straight up fighter build, fighter with magic, ect.

D. if you want to experience real combat go get rolled by the royal manticore

E. you really dont have to mine stuff, i mean its mostly fore gem chance which is money and the iron ore is neat to have if you know what to do with it

also not really runescape, there be no levels in this game, you are just killing stuff for fun and loot, I personaly enjoy looting cuz i am a loot goblin, and yes the invintory management is the true end game boss that i have yet to beat and probably never will

Originally posted by Jake:

Personally I feel as if a lot of the negative reviews have gone into this expecting Dark Souls or other combat they're familiar with in games, I've had the hardest time with Combat until I stopped and started using traps and being clever about how I approached enemies, after all you are just a villager going up against monsters, guardians and trained militia.

while this game is no where near dark souls in most fights, i mean nothing can really compare to the Artorias fight in dark souls, this game is arguably a lot more punishing when you lose a fight, its not as simple as spawn at bonfire run back fight again. Here you spawn god knows where losing god knows what and have to deal with the consequences of losing the fight

[Nerevar]

the combat is fine. it just takes awhile to get used to it and how it works. the best strategy early on is too simply avoid combat nearly entirely. youre a weak nobody. kinda like old school gothic games. so trying to fight anything you encounter will often result in quick death.

most of the players who leave bad reviews for this game are your typical skyrim casulplayers. they cannot think for themselfs or are even able to figure things out themselfs without the game straight up telling them where to go and what to do next with questmarkers and huge tutorials as they never learned how to do that.

the game does have some jank of course. but thats true for nearly any indie title.

[Yes, I have a Mic.]

Originally posted by bunies:

Originally posted by Yes, I have a Mic.:

I have played alittle more. Its not that.
I'm not even going to say its a deal breaker that combat is bad but so far... no charm. Thats what made me have to take a break and play Darkest Dungeon of all games.

I'm not sitting here thinking "Oh man, this inventory management is *awesome*!" or "Wow, that character was really funny and interesting to listen to!".
I just don't really know what I'm meant to be taking pleasure from so far. I hope it reveals itself soon.

I keep thinking of Fable and how much fun that was even though the combat was bad and the story mostly linear.
I know its not a 1:1 comparison but they did alot more with alot less.
I'm getting the creeping sensation the big draw is going to be a gameplay loop centred around simple tasks that stimulate short lived dopamine rushes.
I don't think the mining picks are going to be just for show. I think I've basically bought Runescape.
I don't like that and I really hope I'm wrong.

A. fairly confident fable was made by a way way way bigger studio then this game

B. honestly i enjoyed the story and the world lore of the game, its fairly unique and refreshing and not a rehash of the same ♥♥♥♥ most other games have

C. the game very much does have a great variety of builds and ways to fight, and they are fairly different, I mean you can do full trap build if you want to, or do a gun/1 hander build, dagger/1 hander, gun rotation, variety of magic builds, straight up fighter build, fighter with magic, ect.

D. if you want to experience real combat go get rolled by the royal manticore

E. you really dont have to mine stuff, i mean its mostly fore gem chance which is money and the iron ore is neat to have if you know what to do with it

also not really runescape, there be no levels in this game, you are just killing stuff for fun and loot, I personaly enjoy looting cuz i am a loot goblin, and yes the invintory management is the true end game boss that i have yet to beat and probably never will

A. Technology now is leaps and bounds above what it was... what... twenty years ago? Besides, I was referring more to style and writing. Both seem to be lacking in this, this game isn't good at setting scenes in an interesting way.

B. Alright, thats your experience and I'll just have to see if mine compares. So far... not so much.

C. So a variety of ways to kill things? The fact I'm having to watch thirty minute long videos on skills and builds because I'm aware some can't be respeced really isn't a point in this games favour. Its actually a major source of annoyance. Like, I'm sure I'll like the builds once I get them but why am I having to plan this far ahead before getting into the game? And why will I have to start a new save just to experiment with breakthroughs?

D. I don't know what that is but it sounds difficult. Difficult doesn't mean that combat mechanics are good by todays standards but I suppose we'll see. Open mind.

E. Fair enough.

I guess I'm just searching for this games identity. It seems generic so far.
I don't feel invested. The story so far is "Yo, you need cash cause *insert clunky exposition here*. Go wander around." after a shipwreck I didn't even get to see.
Couldn't they have inserted some drama where you see your friends getting killed during the shipwreck as a mysterious cloaked figure watches from a distance? Maybe have dialogue with the crew so you feel bad for the people who die. Have the camera shake with the collision in a first person perspective. Cut to the camera looking from behind the figure and have the cries and wails sound distant, drowned out by the crashing of waves and the roaring of thunder. Flash of lightning against the night sky and cut to black. Sounds of calm waves, fade in on beach, wake up. End scene.
I just came up with that off the top of my head and it would have been such a cheap way to make the player go "Ooooh, intrigue. I give a ♥♥♥♥ about these characters".
Competent writing really isn't that hard. Its the cheapest part of the development process and these guys had all the time in the world.
I'm getting angrier the more I think about it. Combat I can cope without but story really is the most important thing to me.