Am I Insane? The map doesn't show your location?

[Qaboom]

Maybe I'm missing something, but when I pull up the map I can't see my location marked.

Also, I can put a waypoint on the map with right click, but then can't figure out how to navigate towards that waypoint in the world...

Help!

[Power]

Originally posted by Pro-Pain:

Originally posted by Qaboom:

And yet, my broke almost naked ass has a map of the whole region... nice try.

Damn then you must have a hard time IRL navigating where to go then.

my map IRL gives me a player marker, the power of gps. +

[Pop'N'Fresh]

Originally posted by Boink:

Originally posted by Don't Heal Me:

Okay...so it's based off of a more realistic approach. In the wilderness in real life you would use the compass, your map, and landmarks to figure out where you are unless you happened to have GPS. I don't see anything bizarre about it. Compasses do not tell you exactly where they are, they point to magnetic north so that you can use them to figure out what direction you are going relative to a map which has a labelled compass or is implied to follow (top = north) style direction.

Er.

I know how to use a map + compass. I've even done it IRL.

"X" marks the spot. Once you've done your orienteering, you can accurate place a X where you are on the map...

Which is why it's a stupid design choice not to have the feature ingame.

Good design:

Require player to buy / make map + have a compass + skill use => X placed on map where you are

Bad design:

Have map (fully filled out, no requirements), have compass, no skill mechanics => X not placed on map


This is a simple 101 guide to "how not to make your ingame navigation design suck absolute nuts".

Originally posted by Skala:

Nah, you're just used to games holding your hand :) I think this is a breath of fresh air with no detailed map, no waypoint markers, etc

Er.

I own & have played the following game:

https://store.steampowered.com/app/223510/Miasmata/


Hint: that really does use a realistic navigation system using a map, a compass and trig between two - three map landmarks. It's kinda the gold standard for 100% realistic design.

And guess what?

Once you've done the mapping, it adds freaking x marks on your map.

Man, you are quite hung up on this so here we go ;



One

it's a design choice ,it's called an adventure simulator. If you knew where your objective was and where you were you'd go in straight lines everywhere. Efficient but boring. Half the fun of getting anywhere in this game is going and looting all the surrounding area first which you'd miss if you could just beeline for the destination.



Two

It's not a flaw, its a feature one designed to yes, slightly confuse and annoy but its so you as the player get to know how to get places after a looting run and the surrounding area in general, so when random npc from town says `go to the tower with the vines that look like people' you go oh, i found that when i was looking for this dungeon and so on.



Three

if you've used a map "IRL" then navigating this map should be a cake walk. It has clearly mapped out roads that lead to ALL THE IMPORTANT PLACES not so hard to figure out and the compass is more useful in two player. It not only gives you the direction of your bag but also other players and you could also have a scenario like you say to your friend 'there's a monster over there to the west or look at that burning tree to the north'



Four
My ending point - this was made by a very small team that given the resources available to them they have made a janky but all the more lover-able game with character. If you understood what it takes to even make one of the many systems that are in place in Outward I think you would forgive a little design choice that gives you a map and compass that doesn't function exactly as it would in reality.

[Oliver Tree]

Originally posted by Stake From Jate Farm:

Originally posted by Styles:

It absolutely should not be modified. If you want it... play skyrim. I spent many hours modding skyrim to be this game...

Yes same here.

Originally posted by Styles:

...Don't make excuses.

Kind of a ♥♥♥♥ thing to say to a disable vet...

It really isn't a ♥♥♥♥ thing to say to a Veteran. I have PTSD,TBI and Tinnius, also I am 33 I can find my way around pretty well. Excuses are excuses.

[Power]

Originally posted by Boink:

Originally posted by Serath:

Underrated? It's generally liked. And is totally unlike....Outward. Not sure where how the comparison came up.

Kingdoms is ok, esp. if you treat it as a console port and not a pc native RPG. i.e. think of it as a western JRPG.

The comparison was:

1) KoM has small / medium self-contained zones with gates.

2) It pretends to be a deep RPG but it's actually kinda simplistic / shallow - which compares to a mapping system that pretends to be deep ("you have to do it manually") but is actually just covering up badly designed mechanics

Does this make it clearer? i.e. this game is selling itself as a Gothic / Risen type, but a lot of the feedback threads are actually showing that this is only skin deep and there's a very much more simplistic and bare-bones beast hidden underneath.

This is the kind of stuff you want answered before hitting the buy on a $40/45 title, unlike a $20/25 which would just be an instant buy and a "meh" if it didn't pan out.

the developers have stated multiple times that its nothing like gothic or risen and that they have actually never played either of those games. Its being compared to them because its eurojank and they all have that certain quality about them.

[Stake From JateFarm]

Originally posted by Fizzleboxer:

Originally posted by Stake From Jate Farm:

Yes same here.



Kind of a ♥♥♥♥ thing to say to a disable vet...

It really isn't a ♥♥♥♥ thing to say to a Veteran. I have PTSD,TBI and Tinnius, also I am 33 I can find my way around pretty well. Excuses are excuses.

Fair 'nuff

[Power]

Originally posted by cam1994b:

Originally posted by Boink:

Er.

I know how to use a map + compass. I've even done it IRL.

"X" marks the spot. Once you've done your orienteering, you can accurate place a X where you are on the map...

Which is why it's a stupid design choice not to have the feature ingame.

Good design:

Require player to buy / make map + have a compass + skill use => X placed on map where you are

Bad design:

Have map (fully filled out, no requirements), have compass, no skill mechanics => X not placed on map


This is a simple 101 guide to "how not to make your ingame navigation design suck absolute nuts".



Er.

I own & have played the following game:

https://store.steampowered.com/app/223510/Miasmata/


Hint: that really does use a realistic navigation system using a map, a compass and trig between two - three map landmarks. It's kinda the gold standard for 100% realistic design.

And guess what?

Once you've done the mapping, it adds freaking x marks on your map.

Man, you are quite hung up on this so here we go ;



One

it's a design choice ,it's called an adventure simulator. If you knew where your objective was and where you were you'd go in straight lines everywhere. Efficient but boring. Half the fun of getting anywhere in this game is going and looting all the surrounding area first which you'd miss if you could just beeline for the destination.



Two

It's not a flaw, its a feature one designed to yes, slightly confuse and annoy but its so you as the player get to know how to get places after a looting run and the surrounding area in general, so when random npc from town says `go to the tower with the vines that look like people' you go oh, i found that when i was looking for this dungeon and so on.



Three

if you've used a map "IRL" then navigating this map should be a cake walk. It has clearly mapped out roads that lead to ALL THE IMPORTANT PLACES not so hard to figure out and the compass is more useful in two player. It not only gives you the direction of your bag but also other players and you could also have a scenario like you say to your friend 'there's a monster over there to the west or look at that burning tree to the north'



Four
My ending point - this was made by a very small team that given the resources available to them they have made a janky but all the more lover-able game with character. If you understood what it takes to even make one of the many systems that are in place in Outward I think you would forgive a little design choice that gives you a map and compass that doesn't function exactly as it would in reality.

if you can place the x IRL yourself, then just do the same in game. If the conflux mountain is north then you know your in the south, and considering how small the regions are its not difficult at all to get around. the only pace i had any trouble at all was the marshlands and even that was pretty easy sinc the city has a massive lightbeam shooting out of it.

[NeverSleeper]

Originally posted by Boink:

Originally posted by NeverSleeper:

That's because you aren't paying attention to what kind of game it actually is. If your just looking for an open world action rpg this is NOT that. This is more for fans of the slower paces survival games and old brutal/hardcore RPGs with actual difficulty.

>Has played every Deep Silver RPG since Gothic I and played it on release. Have 100% completion on Elex and even bought it at full price at launch to support Euro indy open world RPGs.

>Have original copies of all the old RPGs like Daggerfall and so on.

>I am your target market for this game.

At the moment this game is sounding like Legends of Amalur rather than anything I want to buy.


Seriously.

Ok so just admitting that you know nothing about the game then. here let me help, theres a site for that

http://www.google.com/

[DoktorWieg]

I don't even get why people see that as an issue. Using a map and compass entails that you have landmarks that you can use to figure out your general location then the compass to figure out which direction from that landmark you are.

As far as the maps already being filled with landmarks and revealed, there's no doubt there,s been plenty of other 'adventurers' who've done their work in the world to map areas then sell copies of their maps, which is quite possibly why you have fully drawn maps with points of interests showing.

Having a marker for your position on a map is called using a GPS. There is no such thing in this game unless there's a hidden navigation spell or somesuch. Look around, bring up your map, figure out which landmark is in sight then use the compass to know where you are in relation to that landmark.

Congratulation, you've just mastered a skill that is over 2000 year old.

[Serath]

Originally posted by Wiegraf:

As far as the maps already being filled with landmarks and revealed, there's no doubt there,s been plenty of other 'adventurers' who've done their work in the world to map areas then sell copies of their maps, which is quite possibly why you have fully drawn maps with points of interests showing.

I think it's a matter of people wanting games to be 100% of whatever the game is touted being as when they don't like it the game's original intent. In this case, realism. I've seen too many arguments when one side who defends the realism while the other side who doesn't like it always has "well if A is realistic, why isn't B realistic" excuse.

Case in point, a game that touts realism as a selling point does not mean every, single, aspect of the game needs or has to be realistic. There's a fine line between realistic, and not fun. The devs said it themselves: they used to have it where your backpack would actually not follow you to your death location, and found it was too unforgiving.

If someone wants a good example of something being 100% realistic(ish) for the sole purpose of being realistic and not fun, (though probably funny) look up Desert Bus. Or even that one game that is/(was?) on Steam that permanently bans/prevents your Steam account from ever purchasing it again once you died. Because "realism." (Forgot what it's called.)

[KeeeeaaaaN]

Originally posted by Boink:

Originally posted by Sid Icarus:

Correct, you aren't shown on the map. You have to recognize landmarks and use your compass to get around.

...but the entire point of using a compass with a map is to tell you where you are on it. :issquid:

Usually you'd lock this behind a skill gate ("Navigation: 1 or Stargazing: 1 or whatever).


This seems a really bizarre design choice.

lol and they thought they have google maps on hand

[Serath]

Originally posted by Boink:

...but the entire point of using a compass with a map is to tell you where you are on it. :issquid:

If you want to get technical, a compass shows you what direction you're facing. That's it.
Since when does a magical arrow appear on a physical map made of cloth?

[Boink]

Originally posted by KeeeeaaaaN:

lol and they thought they have google maps on hand

https://astronavigationdemystified.com/

No, really, go learn something. Thus I mentioned stargazing.


Also:

Not a single person has answered a really obvious question: how large is the game world?

[Boink]

Originally posted by Serath:

If you want to get technical, a compass shows you what direction you're facing. Since when does a magical arrow appear on a physical map made of cloth?

Originally posted by Boink:

You've obviously no idea how a map + compass works. It's not magical and it only requires a magnet to point to magnetic north.

https://getoutside.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/guides/beginners-guide-to-using-a-compass/


An ingame indicator is like a given.

Map + Compass = your position is at the centre of your compass.

https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/shop/os-35-compass.html


That big hole in the middle just above the actual compass? You read the map in that bit to see where you are...


I should start charging people for knowledge or something.

[Serath]

Originally posted by Boink:

Not a single person has answered a really obvious question: how large is the game world?

Without fighting, walking detours to avoid fighting, and knowing exactly where you're going without referring to the map, it would take you about 10 minutes to go from one side of the map to the other in my experience.

[TeoLolstoy]

Originally posted by Boink:

Originally posted by Sid Icarus:

Correct, you aren't shown on the map. You have to recognize landmarks and use your compass to get around.

...but the entire point of using a compass with a map is to tell you where you are on it. :issquid:

Usually you'd lock this behind a skill gate ("Navigation: 1 or Stargazing: 1 or whatever).


This seems a really bizarre design choice.

Why? It's just subverting a genre convention. It really works and so far the maps are designed in such a way as to make it possible to gauge where you are by triangulating the map and landmarks you can see. You know, like in the real world without GPS. Sometimes it's more difficult and might lead to you going on an odyssey, but that's part of an adventure right? There's nothing more un-adventurey than knowing where you are all the time. It makes exploration and venturing into the wild a lot more interesting and dangerous.