100% Mana Cost Reductions means the most powerful possible mage has the lowest possible mana.

[Aetrion]

Today I saw that people have obtained 100% mana cost reduction in the game. This is insanely broken, because it makes it so that taking the least possible amount of mana makes the most powerful possible mage in endgame, not to mention completely negates the breakthroughs that grant more mana, mana regeneration, the sleep penalty, all food items and potions related to mana, and reveal soul.

There are a lot of balance issues in this game still, and this is one of the things that need to be fixed. Cap the cost reduction at 80 or 90%. Getting endgame caster gear shouldn't simply negate half a dozen game systems and make any character who sacrificed heavily to maintain a large mana pool pointless.

[Jossiwales]

Originally posted by Aetrion:

Stamina has nothing to do with it. The endgame mage gear makes it so you use no mana at all while casting, which means having a large mana pool is suddenly pointless, and all ways to restore and maintain mana are also pointless, so any character built for mana availability who made extreme sacrifices to get that is pointless.

three words. End Game Gear...............................

[Aetrion]

What about endgame gear makes you think it should invalidate people's character builds and disable well thought out and challenging game systems completely?

Can you name a single popular game where endgame gear is deliberately designed to undermine the core gameplay and derail the character system rather than being a capstone reward for mastering it?

[AsianGirlLover]

Originally posted by Aetrion:

What about endgame gear makes you think it should invalidate people's character builds and disable well thought out and challenging game systems completely?

Can you name a single popular game where endgame gear is deliberately designed to undermine the core gameplay and derail the character system rather than being a capstone reward for mastering it?

Any Bethesda game.

[Jonatom]

Originally posted by Aetrion:

What about endgame gear makes you think it should invalidate people's character builds and disable well thought out and challenging game systems completely?

Can you name a single popular game where endgame gear is deliberately designed to undermine the core gameplay and derail the character system rather than being a capstone reward for mastering it?

Gold-Lich Armor or Jade-Lich Armor I would say are the capstone mage sets for magic mastering in this game. They have obvious trade-offs for utilization. The other Misc. items people are gathering to use in combination with these sets alongside the passive abilities players can get via quests can put players well over the 100% mana reduction even without using weapons or a backpack (if you didn't know that, now you do). Resting in the mage tent as well.. remember this is just the initial game release build, more to come. I believe you argument is more over the fact that you as a player sacrificed more, and now you have some regret in that due to not knowing about this armor, where you wouldn't have given up as much as you did initially. This game is meant to be played more than one time, so legacy some of your items to your next of kin, and learn from this and have some more fun the next time through :) Again, let people build and play how they want, stop calling for nerfs on things that do not need them when compared to the over all world play.

[AsianGirlLover]

Originally posted by Jonatom:

Originally posted by Aetrion:

What about endgame gear makes you think it should invalidate people's character builds and disable well thought out and challenging game systems completely?

Can you name a single popular game where endgame gear is deliberately designed to undermine the core gameplay and derail the character system rather than being a capstone reward for mastering it?

Gold-Lich Armor or Jade-Lich Armor I would say are the capstone mage sets for magic mastering in this game. They have obvious trade-offs for utilization. The other Misc. items people are gathering to use in combination with these sets alongside the passive abilities players can get via quests can put players well over the 100% mana reduction even without using weapons or a backpack (if you didn't know that, now you do). Resting in the mage tent as well.. remember this is just the initial game release build, more to come. I believe you argument is more over the fact that you as a player sacrificed more, and now you have some regret in that due to not knowing about this armor, where you wouldn't have given up as much as you did initially. This game is meant to be played more than one time, so legacy some of your items to your next of kin, and learn from this and have some more fun the next time through :) Again, let people build and play how they want, stop calling for nerfs on things that do not need them when compared to the over all world play.

This guy gets it.

[Masada]

Originally posted by Lucifer69:

Best of both worlds 5 pistols always preloaded and then flamethrower/ runes when out of shots.

Try out blood bullet then, costs mana, no cooldown, no ammo requirements and heals you at the same time as dealing damage ^^ Move over mages, there's a new OP in town!

[Lucifer69]

Well that might be for later but for now I'm enjoying the hell out of my fire mage pirate. I recently got a couple obsidian pistols now so I can just shoot, run, and wait it out. Blood bullet I guess when you ♥♥♥♥ up and need to heal.

[Nigrescence]

Originally posted by Masada:

Try out blood bullet then, costs mana, no cooldown, no ammo requirements and heals you at the same time as dealing damage ^^ Move over mages, there's a new OP in town!

Yeah I'm considering making a new character as a melee and having blood bullet as a backup sidearm for the heal sustain. Does it really have no cooldown? I assume you have to wait for the firing to finish. Not needing ammo seems like a really good deal too.

[laagamer]

Originally posted by wd_phoenix:

I think the stamina go to fast. if i atack lost stamina, if i defend, lost stamina. we reeach a point that if in the middle of fight ur stamina go 0, u cant rum, u cant defend or atack. only die.

Na, dawg. You just suck.

[Masada]

Originally posted by Nigrescence:

Originally posted by Masada:

Try out blood bullet then, costs mana, no cooldown, no ammo requirements and heals you at the same time as dealing damage ^^ Move over mages, there's a new OP in town!

Yeah I'm considering making a new character as a melee and having blood bullet as a backup sidearm for the heal sustain. Does it really have no cooldown? I assume you have to wait for the firing to finish. Not needing ammo seems like a really good deal too.

It follows this rotation;

- Use blood bullet ability with mob targeted, this drains/damages them while healing you and reloading your pistol. Damage is corruption.
- Shoot blood bullet for another chunk of damage. Damage is corruption.

There is no cool down on either ability but there is attack an animation. Since it's a mana based rotation you can use mana reduction gear same as a regular mage...

[Timmy Toddler Hands]

I actually hope this gets nerfed. Having 100% mana reduction makes playing non mage pointless and putting any points in mana at all pointless. I don't want to play a game where the best build is playing a manaless mage that is only super powerful because they didn't do the ley line or theory crafting. Just specced 0 into mana and got 100% mana reduction gear.

[Jonatom]

Originally posted by Nigrescence:

Originally posted by Masada:

Try out blood bullet then, costs mana, no cooldown, no ammo requirements and heals you at the same time as dealing damage ^^ Move over mages, there's a new OP in town!

Yeah I'm considering making a new character as a melee and having blood bullet as a backup sidearm for the heal sustain. Does it really have no cooldown? I assume you have to wait for the firing to finish. Not needing ammo seems like a really good deal too.

Most interesting, sustainable build i have seen thus far is a blood bullet, runic magic build. Running about 60% mana reduction give or take (depending on what weapon and aux gear you want to run), with an obsidian pistol. Its a very nice build.

[Melgros]

This thread reads as "Why should end game gear be powerful? It's unfair!"
After putting time into a game, I hope it rewards me with some OP gear. Almost every game does that. And having a bottomless manapool doesn't prevent you from taking damage lol

[AsianGirlLover]

Originally posted by Melgros:

This thread reads as "Why should end game gear be powerful? It's unfair!"
After putting time into a game, I hope it rewards me with some OP gear. Almost every game does that. And having a bottomless manapool doesn't prevent you from taking damage lol

Exactly. As Gat from Saint’s Row once said “bullets still kill ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, don’t they?”

[Loki]

Originally posted by Melgros:

This thread reads as "Why should end game gear be powerful? It's unfair!"
After putting time into a game, I hope it rewards me with some OP gear. Almost every game does that. And having a bottomless manapool doesn't prevent you from taking damage lol

then you really haven't been listening. it also means sacrificing a lot for mana is bad even for pure mages.

it takes a couple hours to gather the gear to get over 60% reduction in mana and there's not a lot of restriction on mage gear but rather not much mage gear that boosts damage. at one quest you're even offered extra damage for 3 types or reduced mana cost during the missionary quests of course i chose damage because thankfully it was Decay, Etherial, Lightning so great for runic mages i also use runic armour now for 15% more etherial and lightning it gives 5% mana reduction. but all my gear can be gotten with little effort, the jade litch is a joke, u can also pick up an elemental immunity potion easily early on and then the light litch is a joke too. and i haven't found anything else worth using them on so may as well use them rather then hoarding them.