Outward

Outward

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Cetha Jul 5, 2019 @ 1:10am
Combat sucks.
The combat in this game is too slow for what it seems to want to be. Even with no backpack on there's not enough time to dodge attacks in between my own attacks. If I attack I get hit, if I don't attack then the enemy just attacks while I roll around doing nothing. Couldn't figure out how to heal either, except for sleeping. If I do any combat I can fight maybe one thing and then have to sleep several hours.

Getting a refund if I can.
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Showing 1-14 of 14 comments
Katitoff Jul 5, 2019 @ 1:22am 
tl;dr:
"I'm a noob and I don't know how to fight or heal, therefore combat is bad"
The combat requires you to be slow and methodical at first. Take it easy and don't just run into combat flailing around at everything you see.

It's difficult, as it should be. The game doesn't cuddle you and keep you sheltered from the world. If you want to get better and progress further into the game, then you have to try your best and prepare for whatever situations you come across.
King Kazma Jul 5, 2019 @ 3:03am 
Enemies have attack patterns, which some REQUIRE you to be patient with them.

Seeing as how you're literally just some guy basically, the jist of what you should expect to accomplish is pretty small at first.

Now that I think about it, the game itself is a practice in patience.

Also, for healing, there's quite a few items that heal, like bird eggs for example. Its best to cook them first however.
emmietiie Jul 5, 2019 @ 5:51am 
Many fights in this game are unwinnable as a basic melee-only guy. You might have to use hit-and-run tactics or traps until you have all the skills and gear you need.

Some beginner tips:

Buy Fitness from Eto immediately. Passive skills help even if you don't know what you're doing.

Lure bandits to monsters, let them fight to death, and shoot the winner from a distance.

Different monsters and animals will also fight each other.

Run around obstacles to mess with the enemy pathfinding. You can buy yourself time to use potions, reload your pistol, or regain stamina.

When the enemy attacks, roll or sidestep behind them, then try to stun them with rapid strikes.
Sylphie Fioré Jul 5, 2019 @ 10:30am 
Its not that great I agree. Sure it takes patience and skill to do well but I'm just not feeling the combat. I felt dark souls had better combat and I didn't like that combat much either.

The game certainly looked a lot better than it was, sadly I just couldn't get into it, my friend was dissapointed but it's a waste of £21 if I kept it.
Rerstuf Jul 5, 2019 @ 8:54pm 
I have to agree on this one, the combat in general is just bad, it needs an actual rework or at least a rebalance.

Melee combat in particular is terrible, specially because of how dependant you are on stamina for how little damage you deal, you consume a lot of stamina quickly if you don't cheese the AI during combat (like swerving around them when they are about to swing, many enemies can't seem to be able to strike you if you stay to their right/your left), it would be fine if the stamina regeneration wasn't so low even with all the buffs in the game it takes forever to come back forcing you to run around doing nothing for several minutes.
Impact isn't particularly useful either until late game because many enemies are capable to stand back up faster than you reach them and their stability bar regenerate way too fast to the point where you have to swing multiple times in a row to knock them, which let you open to getting counter hits.
On top of that heavy armor is completely useless, they lower your stamina regen and increase stamina usage but they barely lower the amount of damage you can receive, so there's no reason to not pick a light armor for mobility instead.

Bows on the other hand are completely overpowered, mix the Mercenary breakthrough with the the Hunter Skills and you are pretty much untouchable unless the enemy is faster than you because every enemies in the game will make a beeline for you (which is also why traps are completely overpowered) and won't try to dodge or block your arrows. The bows only weakness comes from glitches (Like the targeting reticles hitting the wall behind you if your back is too close to a wall making your character spin 180°, and the arrows firing slightly to the right forcing you to compensate).

Compare them with pistols, which are great, you are limited to the ammo you can carry, reloading is long and risky, but you actually hit like a truck to balance things. Only wish you could actually aim rather than being forced to focus an enemy, the camera angle can make it fairly difficult to figure out if your shot is lined up and you sometime hit trees and barriers.

I didn't tried a full magic character yet tho so I can't really tell if magic is good when you have everything available.
You have to use potions and buffs to gain more damage, on top of abilities. Understand the effects and how they can stack. For example I use Brand and Red Lady's Dagger with a Rage, Discipline and Pain + Dagger build and absolutely nothing in this game stands a chance against me, especially with two of my skills being counters. Toss some fire or something on my weapon and it's just cheese. Suddenly my non-heroic *ss has an ancient immortal Lich as my servant for fear I will stomp him every week otherwise (<--- spoiler about a boss). And then some.

Once you learn more about the game it becomes almost too easy. I have the exact opposite experience you and Rerstuf have, probably because I grew up with games like this and Risen and the like, so it's...not that hard, at all. You just have to figure it out instead of being told.

You're just spoiled by vastly easier games where enemies basically throw themselves on your weapons, but not until after you do a few flips and flashy things to look cool first while pressing the same button over and over. This has made you too impatient to want to spend time learning systems in a game that's all about systems. Plenty of games out there that cater to your needs. But this doesn't make Outward "bad". It makes it "not for you" I guess.
Last edited by Ǵ̶͓̂͑lí̴̤̀̄́tcĥ̸; Jul 5, 2019 @ 10:45pm
Sylphie Fioré Jul 5, 2019 @ 10:53pm 
Originally posted by ⊂╫i└└ i∩':
You have to use potions and buffs to gain more damage, on top of abilities. Understand the effects and how they can stack. For example I use Brand and Red Lady's Dagger with a Rage, Discipline and Pain + Dagger build and absolutely nothing in this game stands a chance against me, especially with two of my skills being counters. Toss some fire or something on my weapon and it's just cheese. Suddenly my non-heroic *ss has an ancient immortal Lich as my servant for fear I will stomp him every week otherwise. (<--- spoiler about a boss) And then some.

Once you learn more about the game it becomes almost too easy. I have the exact opposite experience you and Rerstuf have, probably because I grew up with games like this and Risen and the like, so it's...not that hard, at all. You just have to figure it out instead of being told.

You're just spoiled by vastly easier games where enemies basically throw themselves on your weapons, but not until after you do a few flips and flashy things to look cool first while pressing the same button over and over. This has made you too impatient to want to spend time learning systems in a game that's all about systems. Plenty of games out there that cater to your needs. But this doesn't make Outward "bad". It makes it "not for you" I guess.
Its not the difficulty its the feel of combat, its just very clunky and lackluster. At least melee wise. Outward has its share of other issues too, like a terrible start to story and crappy character creation. Given only 2 hours of game time before not being able to refund, well the first impression was terrible.

I don't think op was talking about difficulty, more likely they just had a bad time with the combat because it feels really slow and unpolished. From what I did in the tutorial too it seems like it doesn't really get much better even with magic and the like. Sadly the combat, character creation and story are a big part of rpgs and with how this one panned out I'd only pay £10 or less. It certainly looked and seemed better than it actually was.
Rerstuf Jul 6, 2019 @ 7:40am 
Originally posted by ⊂╫i└└ i∩':
Once you learn more about the game it becomes almost too easy. I have the exact opposite experience you and Rerstuf have, probably because I grew up with games like this and Risen and the like, so it's...not that hard, at all. You just have to figure it out instead of being told.
You seem to have completely ignored my point about how melee combat is extremely weak and everything else is overpowered.
It's not challenging or interesting to run around an enemy waiting for your stamina to regenerate, if they didn't hit you the first time they won't hit you any other times unless you don't pay attention to where you're going.
Until you start getting endgame gears, almost every combat in melee are just extremely lenghty because you wait an extremely long time and wearing heavy armor does nothing but penalize you because you suck up about pretty much the same amount of hits with or without it.
I didn't ignore your point. It's just wrong.

Stamina is your issue? Pop a piece of food in your mouth and sip some water, and don't fight 4 guys after just running up to them and have no stamina left. Very rarely am I ever in a situation where stamina is screwing me. On top of that like I said, potions and buffs increase your damage more than enough to not only kill most things pretty fast (outside of endgame enemies obviously) but also stagger and knock them down after a couple hits. Learn what impact damage is all about, learn how to break their stability. Stop playing the game like it's Dark Souls or trying to spam attacks like you're Kratos. Both ways will get you frustrated, killed, etc. Would you play a Castlevania game as if it is Ninja Gaiden, die, and then call Castlevania bad? Learn enemy patterns, learn how to catch them between attacks with buffed abilities and learn how to knock them down, make sure your actions are not wasted, so on and so forth.

You're the one who ignored me.
Last edited by Ǵ̶͓̂͑lí̴̤̀̄́tcĥ̸; Jul 6, 2019 @ 9:32am
Flashand Jul 6, 2019 @ 9:57am 
extremely clunky combat and do not bother with magic it is garbage you are attacked before you can cast one spell and you have to set yourself up and not move around so that you are wasting time learning spells
Rerstuf Jul 6, 2019 @ 11:44am 
Originally posted by ⊂╫i└└ i∩':
I didn't ignore your point. It's just wrong.

Stamina is your issue? Pop a piece of food in your mouth and sip some water, and don't fight 4 guys after just running up to them and have no stamina left. Very rarely am I ever in a situation where stamina is screwing me. On top of that like I said, potions and buffs increase your damage more than enough to not only kill most things pretty fast (outside of endgame enemies obviously) but also stagger and knock them down after a couple hits. Learn what impact damage is all about, learn how to break their stability. Stop playing the game like it's Dark Souls or trying to spam attacks like you're Kratos. Both ways will get you frustrated, killed, etc. Would you play a Castlevania game as if it is Ninja Gaiden, die, and then call Castlevania bad? Learn enemy patterns, learn how to catch them between attacks with buffed abilities and learn how to knock them down, make sure your actions are not wasted, so on and so forth.

You're the one who ignored me.
You completely did ignore my point by describing what is literally you playing a character with endgame gears defeating an endgame boss, what a surprise I also shred everything on my path when I use Worldedge Greataxe and Chimera Pistol, but that doesn't mean there's not something fundamentaly broken with the actual rest of the game.
And you started going on a rant that people complaining that the combat is clunky don't know what difficulty is, that's just false assumptions to try to discredit other people claims instead of backing up yours.

My issue is that the stamina usage/damage ratio on melee weapons is simply terrible, there's literally no point in playing a melee character ever because you'll spend a lot of time in fights while pretty much every other build (still don't know how good or bad is magic) can somewhat quickly deal with opponents even with weak gears.
Even Stamina Recovery 5 requires a full on minute to regenerate and doing anything blocks stamina regeneration for a short time. Potions and other items are to be used before combat, and again, stamina regeneration that isn't immediat is pretty much useless if sparing you one minute in the actual waiting (or running away if you have the Mercenary breakthrough because Stamina Recovery 3 to 5 are actually strong enough to overcome mana comsuption from sprinting).

You also ignored my other point that heavy armor is useless in the game, why add it if there's no reason to wear it? Your survival is not increased enough to actually justify the lower stamina regen and increased stamina usage, the impact resistance is meaningless too because not only later light armors have it too, if you get staggered in combat, falling again is probably the least of your concern.

As for staggering, my biggest grip is the regeneration of the stability that comes up too quickly, you have to combo enemies but that's just a good way to take a hit.

Again you have completely ignored my points that it's not about being hard, it's combat being extremely clunky and melee build being too weak to be interesting.
Sylphie Fioré Jul 6, 2019 @ 11:50am 
Sorry but the combat is slow and clunky, and flawed in some ways. The fans need to stop pushing other people's valid opinions away. If it were better I would of kept playing.
I gave you mention of potions and buffs to increase melee damage and resistances (mostly damage) in every response, yet you still make irrelevant points and claim I'm ignoring you? Laughable.

I described the endgame stuff because that is the point I have now arrived at after getting through everything you consider an issue without much issue of my own. I understand how to set up combat properly by preparing my character before going in with the buffs necessary to make enemies easily staggered, how to manage their stability vs my own and knowing which weapon attacks get me out of the way of their swings, even if it's their followup swings after trading a single hit or two (changing my desire to avoid taking hits, to instead reducing them). I know how to conserve stamina to better avoid the necessity to refill it and bait their combos backing up just out of range of their attacks in order to begin my own after they finish. I know which skills are to be applied during each of these situations to avoid them countering me with followup combos, such as pain setups for a certain dagger attack that is almost guaranteed to stagger them and set me up to knock them down and finish them off. So on and so forth. None of this is beyond basic knowledge, this is fundamental stuff only stifled by impatience and expectations derived from different game experiences.

I also never said the combat wasn't clunky, but some's definition of clunky is "bad" or like the OP says, "sucks" which is what I disagree with. Some of my favorite games of all time have "clunky" combat to some, from Monster Hunter to the Souls stuff (not the same as Outward, but still "clunky") to Risen. Risen 2 suffers from the issues you describe, but not Outward.

There are skills that reduce stamina usage, including passives that reduce heavy armor penalties on Stamina that can be compiled with potions that increase Stamina regen, and things like teas and other potions that flat out refill it, which can be hotkeyed to be used easily even mid combat (even using stuff from the inventory is easy mid combat, just retreat for a moment). As for melee damage there are even weapon effects such as bleeding and poison that can literally be applied to an enemy once and you can walk circles around them until they die (unless they're immune). Early game craftable stuff. The other things you mention, such as not being able to catch fallen enemies due to them getting up too fast, and regens and such still being too slow despite all of the above...I just flat out disagree with or are just wrong.

So on and so forth. Everything I mentioned above in detail I mentioned passively before, but your decision to ignore that in lieu of saying I don't back up my claims because you hinge on a single mention of endgame gear (ignoring the path I had to take to get there) betrays your need for things to be spelled out, which may be telling of how you approach this game.

Heavy armor does make a difference as well. But much like Souls, you can ignore it sure if you know how to bait and avoid enemy attacks good enough (with dodges or counter skills or whatever), and eventually any dependency on it will wane. Your reward for this skill is a direct statistical bonus (via the loss of a penalty) that makes the combat flow even faster. Maybe an issue for some, but this exists in games far, far higher regarded than Outward and seems like a double standard to treat it like some carnal sin just because you need it to compile more grievances with the game.
Originally posted by Princess Belle:
Sorry but the combat is slow and clunky, and flawed in some ways. The fans need to stop pushing other people's valid opinions away. If it were better I would of kept playing.
I guess if people like the pace, adjust to the game and solve the issues you guys have, they're just invalid fanboys, and you know this because you stopped playing. I'm convinced, uninstalling now.
Last edited by Ǵ̶͓̂͑lí̴̤̀̄́tcĥ̸; Jul 6, 2019 @ 1:08pm
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Date Posted: Jul 5, 2019 @ 1:10am
Posts: 14