Incinerators should require fuel to operate.

[Novu]

This is both a realism and a balance issue. In the real world incinerators just don't burn garbage. A fuel source such as natural gas or oil is required to heat the garbage hot enough to turn it into ash. This is usually a net loss of energy when the fuel cost is taken into account as it takes more energy to burn garbage then can be recovered from useful heat extraction.

The in game incinerator is unbalanced and borderline cheaty in the amount of money that can be made from burning garbage. It takes 150k to set up and will generate 40k in just a single month.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2990706366

Burning garbage like this should not generate profits. It should be a money losing operation just like it is in the real world. Incinerators are built to get rid of garbage, not to make money.

[HardCore Gaming]

I believe that it is worth prohibiting the purchase of hazardous and mixed waste from customs, as this provides unreasonable economic advantages.
Also somehow prohibit the sale on the Soviet border of cars bought on the western border, since this is also extremely profitable

[paradigm87]

I like the idea of being able to import waste, just like irl. What I think should be done however is only allow incinerators to use normal waste, and force the player to process the hazardous waste instead or make a specialised hazardous waste incineration plant which requires additional fuel to reach temperatures needed to get rid of the pollutants.

Running the incinerator with fuel would be weird, as the combustable waste is actually the fuel.

[melkij]

Originally posted by paradigm87:

or make a specialised hazardous waste incineration plant

already exists in game, uses chemicals to neutralize hazardous waste (even when buying chemicals, it is still profitable)

[salzlaender]

" A fuel source such as natural gas or oil is required to heat the garbage hot enough to turn it into ash."
Now that is strange, because Germany is full of incinerators as "replacement fuel power plant". In other words, they generate heat and/or electricity by burning trash.


and btw. I don't think it's profitable to import hazardous material to neutralize it, the fuel costs alone nearly eat the meager profit, except maybe you put the plant right to the customs house, and then the cost of the plant?

[Silent_Shadow]

Originally posted by salzlaender:

" A fuel source such as natural gas or oil is required to heat the garbage hot enough to turn it into ash."
Now that is strange, because Germany is full of incinerators as "replacement fuel power plant". In other words, they generate heat and/or electricity by burning trash.

Are you sure that they don't just generate power to help offset the cost of the fuel needed to burn the trash? They may only be somewhat of a drain on the country's budget instead of a bigger drain.

Originally posted by salzlaender:

and btw. I don't think it's profitable to import hazardous material to neutralize it, the fuel costs alone nearly eat the meager profit, except maybe you put the plant right to the customs house, and then the cost of the plant?

Did you not see OP's screenshot? Imports are positive, and by a large amount, which means that importing hazardous waste and disposing of it far outstrips the cost of the fuel used to move it to the incinerator.

[derJJschonwieder]

Yes, incinerators that generate power do exist. I have visited one during my engineering studies.

But: They need very well sorted waste to do that. You can't just put in "mixed" or even "hazardous" waste for that to work. I am not sure how to do that in the current mechanics, maybe give some of the waste types negative heating efficiency?

Espacially plastics (some types literaly are barely burnable with fuel added), but also construction and metal waste (dead mass you need to heat up -> energy you can't use to generate power) come to mind there.

And the output number itself should be checked, it does feel a bit high, but I haven't run the numbers. Maybe taking one of the energy producing plants and assuming that they use 100% burnable waste could be a start

[Novu]

Only paper and wood will burn to ash on its own. Incinerators require additional fuels such as natural gas to burn other waste products (plastic, metal, glass, and other silicates). Some of the heat can be recovered and used to generate power but it is net energy loss. Generating power is just for cost offsetting. It doesn't make the operation profitable. There is a reason most cities either bury their trash or pay people to take it elsewhere. In the real world burning garbage costs more energy then you get back in return. For much of the 20th century dumping garbage straight into the ocean was a common practice.

Some stuff we are burning in this game isn't flammable at all such a mine tailings and industrial slags from metal refining. The only way to dispose of that kind of waste is to bury it in Landfills. Burning those things is hyper-unrealistic.

[KJ]

Originally posted by Novu:

Only paper and wood will burn to ash on its own. Incinerators require additional fuels such as natural gas to burn other waste products (plastic, metal, glass, and other silicates).

If you just dump all the waste that is produced into the same furnace, then yes you have to add energy. Stones and glass dont burn well... But thanks to the garbage collection system in Germany and other EU countries, the collected residential waste has very low water content (max 30%). 2/3 of burned residential garbage are usable for energy production. At the lowest, you can produce 1.3MJ (~0.36kWh) of Energy per 1Kg of unsorted residental waste in germany. Stuff like rubble, glass, metal are collected seperately (or sorted out), and organics are also collected seperately - which is a key importance for why this works in the first place. Wet organics can produce energy in biomass energy plant, and seperate collection makes the other residential waste less wet -> it becomes burnable.
And plastic has good caloric value... it will add net positive energy.
Just because you cant easily burn it with a lighter... at 850+°C stuff tends to burn happily.
The plants sort their waste carefully, so that they dont need to burn oil or gas. Guess why they will gladly take your old wooden furniture for free (even collect it for you). But not the old ceramic tiles from your bathroom...

Sweden is a prime example and proof that importing garbage and generating profit works... Not glass and rubble, obviously...

[Novu]

There are similar power generating incinerators in America. You are missing the point about the waste being heavily sorted before it can be burned. That sorting itself also takes energy.

> If you just dump all the waste that is produced into the same furnace, then yes you have to add energy.

Which is what happens in WRSR. In game incinerators burn unsorted trash which is both unrealistic and highly unbalanced mechanically.