Bores/drill , rant about tunnels

[Varenvel The Festive Dinosaur]

I am aware tunnels take a lot time irl , but compared to every other structure in the game it takes forever to make

out of curiosity i figgured ill build tunnel over that small moutain

19.000 workdays . only "labour" no cranes or equipment

iv done some simple calculations and it would take about 250+ ingame days with current labour force i supply

and thats becouse i provide quite so so amount of workers

any other structure has some heavy equipment , cranes who makes "construction itself faster" and tunnels currently have none

so why not add tunneling equipment or bores?

[tea_bush]

It has been suggested before, but nobody proposed exact models of the machinery and a way to take it to the construction site. Tunneling equipment is not your regular tractor appliance, it's huge.

[Varenvel The Festive Dinosaur]

https://application.wiley-vch.de/books/sample/3433016763_c01.pdf

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/c620/f86a29893499ebbbb50a0ed799626f286445.pdf

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cf/Tunnel_Boring_Machine_%28Yucca_Mt%29.jpg

becouse in current form tunnels need incredible amount of menpower to do anything and time , even for short tunnel

my suggestion:

bore needs to be assembled at site by engineers(aditional construction step)(as thats how bores usualy work , they are constructed/assembled on the tunnel site)

(this also would require higher educated workers to be provided on site or if you cant tunnel would be dug old fashioned way)

it would have fixed cost depending on tunnel type(road , rail) , after its done it would just stop existing (but maybe few models would be there that would have more power , idk dont want you guys spending too much time on this)

Rail one possibly could be multi used as rails could transport such contraptioon

[forzion]

If you build a tunnel on your own it would take time. In real life it takes a lot of time too no matter how good equipment you have. I you want to do it fast, you can always autobuild it. Do not forget about the era in which the game is situated.

Most time consuming are railway tunnels because you cannot use more than one railway builder set. I have built several tunnels myself and I think it is ok to wait because it adds some additional dimension to gameplay.

[tea_bush]

forzion eredeti hozzászólása:

Do not forget about the era in which the game is situated.

Tunneling shields have been used to build Moscow metro since the thirties.

[Varenvel The Festive Dinosaur]

forzion eredeti hozzászólása:

If you build a tunnel on your own it would take time. In real life it takes a lot of time too no matter how good equipment you have. I you want to do it fast, you can always autobuild it. Do not forget about the era in which the game is situated.

Most time consuming are railway tunnels because you cannot use more than one railway builder set. I have built several tunnels myself and I think it is ok to wait because it adds some additional dimension to gameplay.

yeah but we are playing a game where "money builds instantly"

that complex refinery takes maybe , 3 months to build while realism takes years

Eurotunnel with bore took 6 years (1988-1994) and its comparable/aplicable data , eurotunnel has 50km

im not saying tunnels should be fast but maybe make it a bit faster

and yeah i also dont like how "rails take forever" ether , i wish you could add "carts" to construction machine to make it atleast haul a bit more materials

and my tunnel was quite short , i not expected for it to need 18000 labour with no machines to speed it up , mostly done it as i never build one before

its not something who is a must but would be nice if developer looked into it in future as when maps will get bigger , we will buind to have more moutains

[forzion]

tea_bush eredeti hozzászólása:

forzion eredeti hozzászólása:

Do not forget about the era in which the game is situated.

Tunneling shields have been used to build Moscow metro since the thirties.

Well I do not say there is no proper equipment. I just want to emphasize it always takes time to build a tunnel.

Now we have simplified version of tunneling later it can be more complex but always it would take time and except autobuikd there is not too much you can to to make it faster.

For example I built a tunnel in my game over 2 years in-game time and I was OK with that. I planned to build a Steel Mill and it took me over 10 years of in-game time to get it done due to limited supply. You can do it in a month of in-game time if you have enaough money.

[Arq]

I agree that rail tunnels are especially tedious, since one cannot simply throw more workers at the task and because they periodically interrupt to go fetch more material.

[forzion]

Arq eredeti hozzászólása:

I agree that rail tunnels are especially tedious, since one cannot simply throw more workers at the task and because they periodically interrupt to go fetch more material.

That is true but even it takes time I like the mechanic because it is always a challenge and I like to manage massive constructions manually. Here you need to setup your tracks to allow builders to reach there and other stuff. And alongside you can prepare other things.

[Varenvel The Festive Dinosaur]

forzion eredeti hozzászólása:

Arq eredeti hozzászólása:

I agree that rail tunnels are especially tedious, since one cannot simply throw more workers at the task and because they periodically interrupt to go fetch more material.

That is true but even it takes time I like the mechanic because it is always a challenge and I like to manage massive constructions manually. Here you need to setup your tracks to allow builders to reach there and other stuff. And alongside you can prepare other things.

this is only partily correct , as person who "has a lot construction offices" problem more lies that construction site can only accept "trickle of recources"

and this seams very inconsistant from building to building , some buildings who are larger only accept 1 truck at a time where some medium ones can accept up to 4 come and leave

Wierdly enough this should make some construction slower but it does not , example can be roads who need 10k workforce(1 long road) , only slowdown you see when laying asfalt

bonus point to see bultdozer move 120km/h like it took cocaine:)

[JimBarracus]

Varenvel The Festive Girl eredeti hozzászólása:

this is only partily correct , as person who "has a lot construction offices" problem more lies that construction site can only accept "trickle of recources"

and this seams very inconsistant from building to building , some buildings who are larger only accept 1 truck at a time where some medium ones can accept up to 4 come and leave

Wierdly enough this should make some construction slower but it does not , example can be roads who need 10k workforce(1 long road) , only slowdown you see when laying asfalt

since only one car move within a building at a time the benefit of several spots is really small.
Moving around takes more time than unloading.
If there are 4 spots 4 cars can move in, but they also have to leave which can take some time.

Using workers while paving an asphalt road even hinders the construction. The benefit the workers give you is smaller than the time it takes to unload them and for some weird coding reason paving is interrupted.

[Varenvel The Festive Dinosaur]

JimBarracus eredeti hozzászólása:

Varenvel The Festive Girl eredeti hozzászólása:

this is only partily correct , as person who "has a lot construction offices" problem more lies that construction site can only accept "trickle of recources"

and this seams very inconsistant from building to building , some buildings who are larger only accept 1 truck at a time where some medium ones can accept up to 4 come and leave

Wierdly enough this should make some construction slower but it does not , example can be roads who need 10k workforce(1 long road) , only slowdown you see when laying asfalt

since only one car move within a building at a time the benefit of several spots is really small.
Moving around takes more time than unloading.
If there are 4 spots 4 cars can move in, but they also have to leave which can take some time.

Using workers while paving an asphalt road even hinders the construction. The benefit the workers give you is smaller than the time it takes to unload them and for some weird coding reason paving is interrupted.

from tests i done its still faster to construct 1 long road then 2 or 5 shorter ones as "delay between phases and construction office AI"(paving will still take a bit long , but its long on short roads too)

the 20k workforce road took suprisingly fast and seeing that buldozer move gravel at 130km hour is hilarous , you should try if you did not yet

[johntarmac]

Varenvel The Festive Girl eredeti hozzászólása:

from tests i done its still faster to construct 1 long road then 2 or 5 shorter ones as "delay between phases and construction office AI"(paving will still take a bit long , but its long on short roads too)

The fastest I've found to build a long road is to run a mud road alongside the main road and then connect that to the main road in as many places as I have bulldozers and excavators. The main road is then built in small sections simultaneously.

[aantono]

Agree, the game needs some sort of machinery for helping with building tunnels! Otherwise players just use bulldozers to cut a valley in the mountain and build a road instead, cause it’s quicker and cheaper!!! So defeats the point of having tunnels if no one uses them!

[forzion]

aantono eredeti hozzászólása:

Agree, the game needs some sort of machinery for helping with building tunnels! Otherwise players just use bulldozers to cut a valley in the mountain and build a road instead, cause it’s quicker and cheaper!!! So defeats the point of having tunnels if no one uses them!

We cannot cone to stage wherr nobody uses tunnels. The player base is diverse. Even if many become annoyed by certain mechanics there will be people whose toleration level is higher and would be able to enjoy the mechanix even if it is not ideal.

But that does not mean there could not be room for improvements Each player is unique and there are some human flaws which can hinder our enjoyment while doing anything. When time aspect is in the play there is human impatience.

From what I see the main problem with tunnel building is that it takes a while to build a tunnel and people do not like that they have no way how to do it faster even there is the autobuild feature which finishes then reasonably faster. But there human greed comes into play and people do not want to pay for it or they need to wait until they would have enough money for that.

I would say it will be fine to have certain upgrades to tunnel building mechanic in future but this is not a tunnel building game so that is at most a secondary option how to expand the game.

There is so much that can be added to the game and even now it is several games compressed into one and I like it.

Now there are others aspects too and that is the cost of further development and adding more and more stuff without getting more sales as those who already have the game get those for free.

[Konrad]

Does it have to be a TBM? What about vehicles, such as a prefab riggs (used to mount prefabs)[dms-cf-09.dimu.org], or concrete sprayers [digitaltmuseum.no], or mobile tunelling riggs?[upload.wikimedia.org]

I have no idea if I have used the correct english terms for these machines (probably not), but they are quite common when tunnelling not using a TBM.