Three- or two-way tracks?

[ждун]

Hi, I am relatively new to the game but I am kicking myself in the face starting in full realism (expect research) mode and wanted to ask the veterans to share their experience. I am now planing my rail system. I was thinking of making one main loop and a number of subloops connected to it. The idea is trains will service industry and cities through subloops and eventually use the main loop for long distances.

Initially I was planning to build simple two-way track where the right track goes in one direction and the left in the opposite direction. But I think there will be trains going at different speeds on the main loop. There will be high speed express trains as well as slow cargo trains. So perhaps a three-way track would be a better Idea, with the center track to be used in both direction for overtaking slow trains. For example when there is a slow cargo train on the main loop an express train could swap to the center track, overtake it and then eventually switch back to the right track. I wonder if that is a good idea and if that gonna work at all. I also don't really know how to set up joins and forks along the main loop and how to set up the signals properly to avoid lock ups. Maybe if you are experienced with this, share your thoughts please.

[Delle(DK)]

Trains are kind of a science ;-)
But it sound good that you have thought about high speed rails example for long distance trains.
It is a VERY good idea to seperate passengers trains away from cargo lines if you can.

Example lets say you have a heating plant that is a VIP location since people need to go to work there always and you dont want your train to get stuck in straffic.
In such a case i would highly recommend to make 1 dedicated line for such a VIP route.
So example instead of making your passenger line cross a cargo line with risk of having to wait or getting stuck then dig a trench and make the passenger line go below the cargo railroad and the cargo railroad then need a simple bridge above this.
( do not make a tunnel, its is very slow to make and expensive the other way is simple )

but in general reagarding trains, the best is to make a loop in my oppinion so that trains do not always go one way in and the same way out.. yes you can setup switches and stuff and ven make freight yeards where trains can wait and so on, but in my experience making the most busy things one way in and another out and then make a loop back is better it create less issues.

Another things you need to think about.
Personaly i have 1 major line with 2 tracks and then side railroad roads to many things.
The issue is if you have many side tracks then often that will make trains on the main line kind of stack up and wait to be able to continue and then the main line slow down witch is really annoying.

I like to recommend if you make side tracks from your main line then make them pretty long so an entire train quick can exit via the side track and then "park" inbetween two signals.. Once the rear of the train passes the signal the main line is free to use for the other tain.. You want your train to wait outside of the main track so to speak.
Also you should watch some tutorial about how to setup train signals.
The double ones are quite important.

Regarding the train track machine, give it max workers and then get the largest one that is blue its is rather quick if its fully manned.
PS. be aware IF you delete train track, then you properbly need to disable gravel delivery to the railroad constuction building and delete a little of all the goods els the track builder wont work properbly when it recycle the materials.

And best tip ever.. the most simple and best is to NOT use a railroad until you are finished building it.. Els you get all kind of traffic issues where track builder get stuck and cargo trains get stuck on the railraod. ect ;-)
And prop tip.. build a repair shop next to a train depot, then they go there to repair automatic. ;-)

[ждун]

thanks

I think I understand how the signals work and I can set up signals for two-track lines with junctions to other lines, that is no problem. It becomes complicated with three-track line where one track is supposed to be both directions for overtaking. This is really challenging to set up switches and signals. For example one problem I am facing is when an express train has switched to the overtake track for overtaking a slower train, it likes to stay on that track passing the next opportunity to switch back to the main track and keeps going on the overtake track, eventually blocking other trains in the opposite direction to enter the overtake track. It makes sense, as it actually has no reason to switch tracks once it is on the overtake track. So I am questioning weather it is really a good idea to go with three-tracks where overtake track is used in both direction, and perhaps four tracks works better whith its own overtake track for each direction.

[MrKrabs]

I made a video a while ago.
Maybe it helps.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mNGnRwJbjdg&list=PLbl3zr6Ymg9pzQToWQ0YlBqrAn6M3BakV&index=5&t=963s&pp=gAQBiAQB

[ждун]

this strategy I am testing now on a test map with unlimited money and fast build

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3434662477

it seems to work well actually.
The center track is omnidirectional supposed to be used for overtaking.
The outer tracks are directional main tracks.
About every 500m I have a segment where trains can switch to/from center track.
The segments are alternating. center -> outer / outer -> center.

Alternative strategy which I tested on the line to customs house in the south was a regular two-way track, but at some places they split to paralell side tracks for overtacking. This also works and looks interesting, but I think it is less flexible.

[Incrediblejimmy]

Imho most important things:
- do not use the same track for passenger and cargo
- don't kid yourself into thinking "I will electrify later" - you won't, or insane micro awaits you
- If you know what you're doing you can start with rail really early, but if you don't know how to scale that up later you are setting yourself up for failure
- make use of metro and trams, they can cover most of what one instinctively wants to solve with regular trains in terms of distance and capacity, but are cheaper in the trams case, or more practical in the metros case

[MrKrabs]

Imo it all depends on how much traffic you expect.
If it’s gonna be more (which I expect) than the idea of having 3 Tracks won’t satisfy you.
I would suggest 4 lanes.

Having said that:
It is your republic.
You can build as you wish.
There is no right or wrong.

I for example am totally fine with 2 tracks.
Also cargo and passenger share the tracks.
But if there will be more trains I should start to think about some 4 track sections.

[ждун]

the 3 track approach seems better to me, on the other hand if you have 2 track you can add more tracks to the outside of the main tracks later. Potentially even extending to 6 lanes when needed. With 3 tracks you must plan and build the whole thing before you can actually use it and once its build it is difficult to extend further.

[MrKrabs]

Here is a video with the same map.
I escort one train which travels through most of the map.
Maybe you like to take some inspiration from it.
(Don´t mind me speaking German there)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tse3yKqIpZI&list=PLbl3zr6Ymg9p1K3fmnzoMJ9ONKqgiHQsz&index=5&t=2932s

Success with your project though.
And if you need help don´t hesitate to ask here.

Best regards.

[ждун]

oh no worries I do speak german too :-) thanks for sharing.

playing a bit with different setups on a test-map I think 4 lanes track with 2 lanes each direction and with cross joins every kilometer or something allowing the trains to switch lanes is probably the best solution.

With 3 tracks whith omnidirectional center track shared by trains going in opposite direction is more complicated in the end and it is more difficult to extend. This may work for smaller sub-loops maybe. But for the main loop I guess 4 lanes with no omnidirectional tracks seems better. Its easy to set up and easy to extend with additional tracks should it become necessary to resolve bottlenecks. But as long there are not too many trains it works very well. Slow trains aint blocking faster trains and passenger and cargo trains can share the loop.

[ждун]

thanks to everyone sharing your experience and videos!

I think I have figured out perfect setup for me.
4 lanes with two tracks each direction where inner tracks are main tracks and outer tracks are fast lanes for overtaking slower trains on the inner tracks. Cross junctions about every 1000-1500m allowing to switch between regular and fast lanes. Main lines are segmented by normal signals about every two train lenghts, while the fast lanes are single segment between cross junctions.

Here is a 2 lane track from customs house connecting to the 4 lane main loop

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3434852767


This works so good, I can let so many trains go on the main loop at different speeds. I've got no deadlocks, all works no problems. Slower trains try to stick on the main track, while fast trains switch to fast lanes only when they really need to overtake and switch back to the main track after that.

Here a fast electric train is overtaking a slow diesel train over the outer fast lane track.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3434854938

[BR2075]

4 Tracks is the way....outside tracks are local (could even throw in cargo if its infrequent) inside tracks make hi speed or express trains

[Silent_Shadow]

This is an interesting thread, as I was wondering how best to handle fast and slow trains on quad-tracks and didn't even consider that trains might be able to path around traffic.

After some testing of my own, I found that passing was kind of unreliable, as slower trains would sometimes hang out in the fast tracks and force the faster trains to enter the slow tracks that were just behind another slower train. I suppose the issue is that there wasn't anything to push the slower trains off the fast tracks, possibly because slow trains can go the same speed on them and the fast lane may be slightly shorter, especially on the inner side of curves. I was running quite a few trains though, with trams being dispatched every 30, and later 45, seconds from an end station, so maybe passing is better on a less congested network, but in that case, I don't see much reason to signal the tracks any differently.

I think the best approach is still to use lines to confine trains to the fast or slow tracks closest to their speed and then allow the odd train with speeds in between "fast" and "slow" to have free reign and pass as needed.

I would also be interested in hearing how people arranged their quad-tracks; do you keep all the fast trains in the center and have slow trains on the outside or vice versa (↓↓↑↑)? Do you have a pair of double tracks next to each other (↓↑↓↑), maybe with a little weirdness (↓↑↑↓)? I have tried to see how others handle it, but this seems to be a rarely discussed subject, even for other train games like TPF2 or OpenTTD.

[BR2075]

my old map was 4 track two left tracks one direction and right tracks opposite direction.. i used waypoints for entry / exit and signals spaced out well... ( a lil bit longer then my longest rain) inner tracks were express runs and outer tracks local for pass & some cargo

[ждун]

I have discovered that trains seem to prefer lanes with more segments. Hence I have fewer segments on fast lane tracks. Actually only one segment between cross joins on fast lanes and two or three on regular lanes. With this all trains are trying to stay at regular tracks, unless something slow is ahead of them (blue signal), then they switch to the fast lane on next cross join and keep going there until they have passed the slow train. After that they switch back to regular tracks on next join.

I have tested it with regular lanes at center and fast lanes outside. (↓↓↑↑)
But I think it might be working better when fast lanes are in the center and regular outside. With the slower traffic on the outside tracks is probably more efficient for forking to stations.