Trams are not trains

[Shtahetta]

I really hope the current tram system in WRSR is only a placeholder during EA and will be redesigned in later versions. In current game, trams are just electric railbuses, which is very unrealistic, especially considering how realistic transport system WRSR tries to simulate.

Tram tracks are different from train tracks, even if they use the same gauge. Trams are smaller, so then can make tighter turns. Trams are lighter, so the beds don't need to be so heavy and durable. A full sized passenger train, let alone freight train, would destroy a standard tram line. You access tram from the street level, so you don't need a station with platforms, just a stop. And trams can't use platforms neither. If you want to use a railroad track, but expect too little passenger traffic to make using full size trains economic, you don't put a tram on the rail line, but you use specially designed railbuses, motor or electric - which actually exist in game.

Yes, in real world, there are a few specially designed lines which can be operated by both trains and trams. But they're rather unique, and none existed in USSR or other socialist states.

I hope the devs will consider remaking tram lines to make them different:

- There should be small tram stops and larger stations, inaccessible to trains;
- Trains stations should be inaccessible to trams;
- Trams should use their own depot like trolleys;
- Tram track should be "flatter" visually (they don't need gravel embankment), cheaper and faster to construct "manually" (beds are lighter), using build offices and workers (building from stops, like power lines or pipes), instead of railroad track layers;
- Add a possibility to make an asphalt road with tram tracks.

Generally, in game terms it will make more sense for tram lines to act like a kind of street, than like a kind of railroad.

[jwinter]

And also no block signlas - tram operates more like a road vehicle.

In OTTD, Locomotion or Transport fever trams are treated like a road vehicle on special type of road rather than train using signals. I agree that current implementation is wrong.

[RyanFireball]

Tram tracks on roads are classified as "Maybe" on the Trello Roadmap. Trams in Oslo have their own signals, which also is followed by busses where they share stations. Here are some Tram signals from Germany:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Tram_signals_in_Germany
And here from Czechia:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Diagrams_of_tram_signals_of_Czechia

I look at the Trams in W&R more like Interurbans:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interurban

And here is Grefsen Stasjon in Oslo where the the Metro Line connects to the Train Line by a spur track:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Oslo/@59.9408507,10.7803161,157m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x46416e61f267f039:0x7e92605fd3231e9a!8m2!3d59.9138688!4d10.7522454

"OTTD, Locomotion or Transport fever" are transportation "simulation" games, which in my opinion they all fail miserably. W&R are in a genre almost by itself.

[pmredbear]

I think eventually tram-lined roads will be the way forward. I would imagine over time a richer gamut of roads will be developed (including 4-lane, 6-lane roads, 6-lane with tram tracks, etc., each with their own footprint opportunities to overtake, etc.). We just need to be patient I guess.

[Shtahetta]

We have 4-lane roads now, just place two parallel one-directional roads. 6-lane roads don't really fit Soviet style - they did exist in huge metropolis, but in WRSR we can't really re-create Moscow or Leningrad 1 to 1.

[jwinter]

Originally posted by RyanFireball:

Tram tracks on roads are classified as "Maybe" on the Trello Roadmap. Trams in Oslo have their own signals, which also is followed by busses where they share stations. Here are some Tram signals from Germany:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Tram_signals_in_Germany
And here from Czechia:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Diagrams_of_tram_signals_of_Czechia

I look at the Trams in W&R more like Interurbans:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interurban

And here is Grefsen Stasjon in Oslo where the the Metro Line connects to the Train Line by a spur track:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Oslo/@59.9408507,10.7803161,157m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x46416e61f267f039:0x7e92605fd3231e9a!8m2!3d59.9138688!4d10.7522454

"OTTD, Locomotion or Transport fever" are transportation "simulation" games, which in my opinion they all fail miserably. W&R are in a genre almost by itself.

They use signals but those are just special traffic lights at the junctions or intersections similar to what cars use as red-yellow-green + arrows. It is completely different logic to what train use and is coded in W&S. You can run multiple trams without signals on track - the tram signals that are in use only affect priority at intersections.

[hitzu]

If we do not consider the realism aspect, currently building the tram tracks in the urban area is very difficult. They have to follow rail tracks restrictions which are much more strict than road and walkway restrictions. Even if implementing rail tracks within roadways is out of the scope of development, there should be some way to make it easier to lay down tram lines close to them with the possibility to cross the roads anywhere, even close to or within intersections. If it would require the whole new type of network strictly to trams I would suggest making them backward compatible with existing train networks.

[The Mustachioed Marxist]

Originally posted by jwinter:

W&S.

Workers & Sresources?

No worries, I've seen Workers & Wresources multiples times. ;)

[JimBarracus]

I think trolley busses fill the gap quite good.

Normal trains used to stop at flat train stations in rural areas.

Maybe we need some light train tracks that are restricted to 50kmh but they have less restrictions when building them like narrower curves and easier intersections with roads. The train stations seem okay since we have short stations.


Dont know if this is possible to implement.

[tea_bush]

Originally posted by jwinter:

And also no block signlas - tram operates more like a road vehicle.

Block signals make trams the most reliable mass transit in the game. Without block signals trams won't be able to keep distances between each other, like buses.

[Vimes]

Originally posted by tea_bush:

Originally posted by jwinter:

And also no block signlas - tram operates more like a road vehicle.

Block signals make trams the most reliable mass transit in the game. Without block signals trams won't be able to keep distances between each other, like buses.

That's a good point. One thing that I like about cable cars is that they are evenly spaced out and that doesn't change.

I remember when Cities Skylines didn't have a functional "unbunching algorithm" for their buses. I used to rely on later version of the IPT mod which started to include that. Later on they built that into the core game, even tho there are options to change that within the IPT mod.
This is taken from part of the features of the IPT mod for CS....

Configure interval, enable or disable umbunching per line. Please note that unbunching is a vanilla feature and this mod only configures it!


It would be useful if the Devs here at some time could consider some form of unbunching for public transport. Trying to even out factory numbers can be a little difficult without evenly spaced out buses on a line.

[MrKrabs]

I would like to see:
Road with tram tracks, tram line only, and the possibility for the tram to pop on the train line, if required.

[jwinter]

Originally posted by tea_bush:

Originally posted by jwinter:

And also no block signlas - tram operates more like a road vehicle.

Block signals make trams the most reliable mass transit in the game. Without block signals trams won't be able to keep distances between each other, like buses.

But that is not problem with signals but rather how the schedule and lines are coded in this game. Transport Fever can space buses/trams at each line so they wait at a stop longer to compensate if they are about to get too close to vehicle ahead on the same line. This game use shifts so it would be great if you could at least link pulbic transport and lines to shift system. So you could for exmaple guarantee that every shift there will be 2 buses going into the station.

[hitzu]

Originally posted by Vimes:

It would be useful if the Devs here at some time could consider some form of unbunching for public transport. Trying to even out factory numbers can be a little difficult without evenly spaced out buses on a line.

Unbunching would be great, but not like in TF/TF2 where one vehicle waiting for unbunching could just block the whole road. One thing TF/TF2 made well is that vehicles on the newly created line initially go on different stops instead of the first stop in the list, with first launched vehicles go on farthest stops.