Realistic gameplay, how to start a game in map center without asphalt / concrete ?

[starman01]

Hi all,

just checking how other people might do this. I love playing this game in realistic mode, the only thing that i can't really achive is to start my game in the center of the map.

While I could quickly built up a train supply route to the customs office, the problem of asphalt and concrete remains, since it can't be stored, and it cannot be delivered by train. While I could create the infrastructure at the map edge, it requires me (again !) to create a settlement on the border, which will also mean that I spent the first few hours at the border of the map, since i have to construct everything the workers need. And then I only have helicopters to delivered it inland (trucks too, but the distance is huge), until I have the second setup created in the map center.

I wonder is there now a way around this ? Maybe a mod or something ? Making it transportable by train would be great, though that would break the "realism" a bit of course. I rather don't want to use an army of helicopters. As cool as they are, their constant helicopter sound get's a bit overwhelming affter a while.

What are your thought about it ? Any tipps ?

[Silent_Shadow]

Incrediblejimmy eredeti hozzászólása:

Are you sure for the 10 days? I seem to remember they almost instantly ran away when i had them get off at a station using the change line checkbox....(at least when I started my current run after full release)

You can always time it. Just disable autosaves and run it on slow speed; should take you 10 minutes.

[Silent_Shadow]

Silent_Shadow eredeti hozzászólása:

Incrediblejimmy eredeti hozzászólása:

* do I read your fuel formula correctly, in that I can generally more or less expect the most efficient outcome for all types of vehicles if I go for lowest power per capacity then?

Speed is important too, but those three stats seem to be the only major factors on fuel economy. Keep in mind that running stuff at reduced speed or with partial loads will reduce their fuel economy, so try to pick the right capacity for the job and keep the speed limits of your routes and traffic in mind. [...]

Note that you cannot compare fuel economies between different classes of vehicles (road, train, ship, helicopter, airplane) this way, as they all have different multipliers to their fuel consumption. For example, the mi-8 helicopter and the L-410 UPV-e airplane have the same engine power rating, but the mi-8 consumes far more fuel per second.

[Incrediblejimmy]

Silent_Shadow eredeti hozzászólása:

Fuel consumption also goes up a lot if the vehicle is accelerating, so routes with more stops and intersections will result in a lower average fuel economy. Vehicles with low power to weight ratios also reduce the vehicle throughput at intersections and buildings, so fuel consumption may not be as important then.

I don't think stops and throughput would be frequent issues when the main focus is covering the distance to the center of the map...

[Silent_Shadow]

Incrediblejimmy eredeti hozzászólása:

I don't think stops and throughput would be frequent issues when the main focus is covering the distance to the center of the map...

It shouldn't, but since this became more about how fuel efficiency is calculated, I included it so people would be aware about its effect.

[Incrediblejimmy]

Silent_Shadow eredeti hozzászólása:

Incrediblejimmy eredeti hozzászólása:

I don't think stops and throughput would be frequent issues when the main focus is covering the distance to the center of the map...

It shouldn't, but since this became more about how fuel efficiency is calculated, I included it so people would be aware about its effect.

True... Have you ever tried starting in the center like OP said without helis? I would assume it mostly adds waiting time until you have a road to the center, and after that its either horribly slow, or a lot more vehicle-intense...
Would suggest fuel economy, truck maintenance, and getting heating up and running in time might be the most pressing issues...any chance you also know how vehicle maintenance ressources are calculated?

[Delle(DK)]

I honeslty do not recommend starting more than 2km away from the border in early game to save money simply said it take to long time to drive resources and you
also use to much money for transport and other things and you need fuel depots along the way.
The best is to build a road to east border and west border also and then buy resouces there and build your city from that money also and avoid lending money at all.

I think you need a small city near the border to have success, since another issue is that if you wait several years before you buy people then they become really expensive so its best to build a city fast vs traveling very far.
Also it is actually expensive to rent workes at the border its like 5000 pr month when you build your first city that is 60.000 pr year so it will add up.
Also remember to build the communist hq university ( the small one ) and start making higher educated people and research logistics.
You really should aim to have a city in end of year 2 or the latest in early year 3 so you can invite people in the summer time so your heating plant is warm before winter els people start to become to expensive to buy and it gona cost you to much money.
And one indutry to make a profit like a fabric factory and a clothing facotry.
you need minimum 1300-1500 people to man an entire city and provide enough workers for these 2 factorys.
And another tip sell cleaned water.. If you build a truck liqued loading building and have 2 trucks who constant sell water then you can in early game actually get a little nice income that way that can play for most of your rented workers. just build it very close to the border so they dont have to drive so long.
And build one or two small water pump well, it dosent require workers ;-)

I really cant recommend building anything far away from the border without trains and a factorys that make money/profit you will break your neck i think.
Ofcourse you can build a small grass airport and then a construction helicopter to build an airport in middle of the map, then you can fly in some resources and people.
Planes and helicopters can in early game carry more or less the same, but i think planes use less fuel.
( tip you can change planes from passengers to cargo mode in your planes settings. im not sure if all planes can do this )
The grass airport is not that expensive to setup.

Forget about tarmac roads the first 3 years, most of your trucks can only drive 65kmt anyway.. And if you have a city within 2 km of the border then you dont need a concrete or tarmac factory then you save the workers and resources building it.. But if you go further away then get these factorys.

Once you have a profit start building a long cheap railroad track to the location where you want your city. You want to transport everything with trucks and setup a concrete and tarmac plant in your city in center of the map. But it gona take years to build and you first get the big rail construction machine i think 5 years after game start.. until then you really should not bother building long railroad tracks with the small ones the big one can do their job in no time.

[m4rek]

Delle(DK) eredeti hozzászólása:

I think you need a small city near the border to have success, since another issue is that if you wait several years before you buy people then they become really expensive so its best to build a city fast vs traveling very far.

If you haven't started near the twin border for any reason, if you're able to get education up and running you can spend your dollars on third-world immigrants and educate them, since your options for spending those dollars are limited and your rubles are in high demand.

[TB]

Silent_Shadow eredeti hozzászólása:

• Set up a pair of free bus stations at the customs house and another at the center. Link each station in a pair to the other station in the pair with the "where should workers go?" mechanic. This keeps foreign workers from disappearing; instead, they just cycle between the stations.

Don't you find it ironic to suggest exploits like these in a *realistic gameplay* mode? Sorry for the offtopic but seeing how often you recommend this to players I couldn't help it.

[Silent_Shadow]

Incrediblejimmy eredeti hozzászólása:

True... Have you ever tried starting in the center like OP said without helis? I would assume it mostly adds waiting time until you have a road to the center, and after that its either horribly slow, or a lot more vehicle-intense...
Would suggest fuel economy, truck maintenance, and getting heating up and running in time might be the most pressing issues...any chance you also know how vehicle maintenance ressources are calculated?

I haven't tried starting this way, but I have done long distance expansions, and I still think the best way to do it is to building up an airport with a local gravel quarry/processor, a concrete plant, and an asphalt plant. There are also techniques to make long distance building go faster, so time isn't that bad with enough vehicles and some planning.

I am not sure how maintenance costs are calculated, but I think it just depends on the time since the last repair.

Delle(DK) eredeti hozzászólása:

I honeslty do not recommend starting more than 2km away from the border in early game to save money simply said it take to long time to drive resources and you
also use to much money for transport and other things and you need fuel depots along the way.
The best is to build a road to east border and west border also and then buy resouces there and build your city from that money also and avoid lending money at all.

Generally I do not recommend it either, especially for new players, but it can be worthwhile to start near a bunch of resources you can process for a good profit.

Delle(DK) eredeti hozzászólása:

Also it is actually expensive to rent workes at the border its like 5000 pr month when you build your first city that is 60.000 pr year so it will add up. [...] You really should aim to have a city in end of year 2 or the latest in early year 3 so you can invite people in the summer time so your heating plant is warm before winter els people start to become to expensive to buy and it gona cost you to much money.

The cost of foreign workers shouldn't be too much different because you are building the same city, just farther away.

Delle(DK) eredeti hozzászólása:

I really cant recommend building anything far away from the border without trains and a factorys that make money/profit you will break your neck i think.
Ofcourse you can build a small grass airport and then a construction helicopter to build an airport in middle of the map, then you can fly in some resources and people.
Planes and helicopters can in early game carry more or less the same, but i think planes use less fuel.

Tracks take too long to build in my opinion. Ships or airports are much faster for long distance expansions, especially if you build their remote facilities with helicopters. Airplanes in general also have much higher throughputs and fuel economies than helicopters do.

m4rek eredeti hozzászólása:

If you haven't started near the twin border for any reason, if you're able to get education up and running you can spend your dollars on third-world immigrants and educate them, since your options for spending those dollars are limited and your rubles are in high demand.

This is another reason to get an early game airport, as you can use your dollars to import building materials without access to a western customs house. I still think most dollars should be spent getting immigrants though.

TB eredeti hozzászólása:

Don't you find it ironic to suggest exploits like these in a *realistic gameplay* mode? Sorry for the offtopic but seeing how often you recommend this to players I couldn't help it.

It's fine, but I don't see it as an exploit because you are just using the game's mechanics, not exploiting some weird behavior or loophole, like with importing endless amounts of nuclear waste at the customs house to get free money with almost zero downsides.

Is it "realistic?" Not really, but this is a game and there needs to be some compromise for a game to be playable and enjoyable.