Realistic gameplay, how to start a game in map center without asphalt / concrete ?

[starman01]

Hi all,

just checking how other people might do this. I love playing this game in realistic mode, the only thing that i can't really achive is to start my game in the center of the map.

While I could quickly built up a train supply route to the customs office, the problem of asphalt and concrete remains, since it can't be stored, and it cannot be delivered by train. While I could create the infrastructure at the map edge, it requires me (again !) to create a settlement on the border, which will also mean that I spent the first few hours at the border of the map, since i have to construct everything the workers need. And then I only have helicopters to delivered it inland (trucks too, but the distance is huge), until I have the second setup created in the map center.

I wonder is there now a way around this ? Maybe a mod or something ? Making it transportable by train would be great, though that would break the "realism" a bit of course. I rather don't want to use an army of helicopters. As cool as they are, their constant helicopter sound get's a bit overwhelming affter a while.

What are your thought about it ? Any tipps ?

[pauloandrade224]

You probably just cant do it im afraid

[fjorkar]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2215572749&searchtext=

try this mod

[ling.speed]

The game is kind of balanced around not starting at the border.
I've started dead center once and asphalt/concrete wasnt a big problem.
Just make sure you dont go all luxury from the start and pave everyting in black.

To make a small ~600 flat community (with their own asphalt and concrete production) you need ~40 concrete trips and ~30 asphalt trips (10t truck both). With enough trucks you still can get people working in the first year, unless there is zero roads.

[bajecznie nawdychany]

Hello.
I created a custom map based on original vanilla map with basic infrastructure in the middle of the map.
You can give it a try if You want. I would recommend starting with medium money considering trains are pretty expensive.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3259808277

[Silent_Shadow]

Just build an asphalt and concrete plant near the center of the map and import the bitumen and cement for it. You could also build a cheap dirt airport to fly foreign workers and materials in and cut out the wait with trucks.

[Incrediblejimmy]

So I haven't tried starting in the center, but if i would, with the added challenge to not use helis, I think setting up a concrete and asphalt plant in the center very early and supplying them with a trickle of workers through something like a bus line from customs that uses 4 seater cars, might be key... Also getting a very early railline going that pulls in all the gravel and possibly coal you might need, and frees up the dumpers could be worth a try - keep in mind that rail cars and rails do not have maintenance, while even a cheap loco like the diesel pig can essentially move every train, so the train might just turn out to be the cheaper way to go for the center...

[Silent_Shadow]

Originally posted by Incrediblejimmy:

and supplying them with a trickle of workers through something like a bus line from customs that uses 4 seater cars, might be key...

If you're talking about getting foreign workers to the center of the map, then the best cheap way to do it is:

• Set up a pair of free bus stations at the customs house and another at the center. Link each station in a pair to the other station in the pair with the "where should workers go?" mechanic. This keeps foreign workers from disappearing; instead, they just cycle between the stations.
  
  
• Have one bus collecting workers from customs and putting them in the nearby station pair. This ensures all available workers are collected, creates a pool of workers for larger buses to fill up at, and eliminates the need for a bunch of vans to enter the customs house.
  
  
• Buy the largest buses you can get to take workers to the station pair in the center of the map. This is generally more cost efficient and fuel efficient. You may need a "rest stop" (free bus station) every three km or so to refresh the ride time limit.
  
  
• Distribute workers from the center station pair as normal. You may need one van to bring workers to the concrete and asphalt plants or a pair of cars, or just have workers walk from the station pair to the plants.

For 8+ km, I would still recommend rush building a cheap dirt airport at the center and using the Fo27 to shuttle workers and some material over.

[Incrediblejimmy]

Originally posted by Silent_Shadow:

Originally posted by Incrediblejimmy:

and supplying them with a trickle of workers through something like a bus line from customs that uses 4 seater cars, might be key...

If you're talking about getting foreign workers to the center of the map, then the best cheap way to do it is:

• Set up a pair of free bus stations at the customs house and another at the center. Link each station in a pair to the other station in the pair with the "where should workers go?" mechanic. This keeps foreign workers from disappearing; instead, they just cycle between the stations.
  
  
• Have one bus collecting workers from customs and putting them in the nearby station pair. This ensures all available workers are collected, creates a pool of workers for larger buses to fill up at, and eliminates the need for a bunch of vans to enter the customs house.
  
  
• Buy the largest buses you can get to take workers to the station pair in the center of the map. This is generally more cost efficient and fuel efficient. You may need a "rest stop" (free bus station) every three km or so to refresh the ride time limit.
  
  
• Distribute workers from the center station pair as normal. You may need one van to bring workers to the concrete and asphalt plants or a pair of cars, or just have workers walk from the station pair to the plants.

For 8+ km, I would still recommend rush building a cheap dirt airport at the center and using the Fo27 to shuttle workers and some material over.

As long as all that is supplied are a concrete and asphalt plant, which can easily run with 2 workers each, I would assume the unused workers cost more than the fuel savings...After the roads are done and this setup also provides the main builder pool, it should be better - probably depends on the distances though

[Silent_Shadow]

Originally posted by Incrediblejimmy:

As long as all that is supplied are a concrete and asphalt plant, which can easily run with 2 workers each, I would assume the unused workers cost more than the fuel savings...After the roads are done and this setup also provides the main builder pool, it should be better - probably depends on the distances though

That's the thing though, there is no waste of workers because they keep walking between the stations instead of timing out and going home, and for building a starter town, you will want a lot of labor for building and fire stations.

You would also need about 20 Trabi 601's to staff the plants on gravel roads 9 km from the customs house with just 2 workers per plant. 20 Trabi's on gravel roads have as much throughput as just one Skd-706 RTO MTZ bus, but their cost is about equal to one Skd-706 RTO MTZ bus (80 seat long distance) and one Zis-155 bus (52 seat collector), so you might as well get the fuel savings and other benefits.

[Incrediblejimmy]

Is there really a lot of fuel saving? Trabi fills up with something like 80l of fuel, buses have about 10 times that capacity, and whenever I use them they don't seem to differ a lot in the frequency of their gas-station-trips...
Didn't know you don't pay workers trapped in the loop...I always assumed they are paid at the customs house like everything else.

[Silent_Shadow]

You can estimate the ideal road vehicle fuel mileage with the equation:
f = S × 59 ÷ E, where:
• f = Fuel mileage, in km per ton of fuel.
• S = Speed the vehicle travels at, in km/hr.
• E = Engine power rating, in kW.

Note that 1 km has 1,000 meters and 1 ton of fuel is 1,000 liters, so 1 km per ton of fuel equals 1,000 meters per 1,000 liters of fuel, which simplifies to 1 meter per liter of fuel.

If you multiply the vehicle's fuel mileage by its capacity, you get its fuel economy:
F = f × C, where:
• F = Fuel economy in ton-km per ton of fuel or riders-km per ton of fuel.
• f = fuel mileage in km per ton of fuel.
• C = Capacity of the vehicle, in tons or riders.

On gravel roads (i.e. at 60 kph) and with full passenger loads, the Trabi gets a fuel economy of ~745.3 rider-meter/liter, while the Skd-706 RTO MTZ bus gets a fuel economy of ~2,420.5 rider-meter/liter, so this bus is over three times as fuel efficient in these conditions.

As for how much fuel the bus actually uses, it uses about 0.033 tons (or 33 liters) of fuel per km (the inverse of its fuel mileage) on gravel roads, which at ~130 rubles per ton of fuel works out to 4.29 rubles per km. Since the bus carries 80 workers at a time, it costs about 0.054 rubles per worker per km.

On gravel roads, the Trabi 601 uses about 0.0054 tons (or 5.4 liters) of fuel per km, which at ~130 rubles per ton of fuel works out to 0.70 rubles per km, and with 4 workers comes out to about 0.175 rubles per worker per km.

Ignoring inflation and only on gravel roads, you would pay about 14 rubles per day to run the 20 trabi's or about 4.29 rubles per day for the bus. Over a month that is about 291.3 rubles in savings. Over a year that is about 3,544 rubles in savings. This is also with the ~4,000 rubles you'd save buying the bus instead of the 20 Trabi's.


Foreign workers are paid for as soon as they are loaded in a vehicle. You do not get a refund if they teleport home without working.

[Incrediblejimmy]

Originally posted by Silent_Shadow:

Foreign workers are paid for as soon as they are loaded in a vehicle. You do not get a refund if they teleport home without working.

Thanks for the calculation...I won't ask you to do the same for asphalt^^

I was under the impression foreign workers have a 12h travel/wait timer...does that just get reset endlessly then?

* do I read your fuel formula correctly, in that I can generally more or less expect the most efficient outcome for all types of vehicles if I go for lowest power per capacity then?

[Silent_Shadow]

Originally posted by Incrediblejimmy:

I was under the impression foreign workers have a 12h travel/wait timer...does that just get reset endlessly then?

As always, there is never a simple answer with this game. The "12 hour" time period varies in length depending on where the foreigner is waiting at:

• Foreign workers will wait up to 8.333 days (500 seconds on slow speed) at the customs house.
  
• Foreign workers will wait up to 10 days (600 seconds on slow speed) at a station; the only time this isn't true is when waiting at a station that is linked to another station they can wait at, in which case they will wait the same time citizens will: for 1 day (60 seconds on slow speed).

[Incrediblejimmy]

Originally posted by Silent_Shadow:

Originally posted by Incrediblejimmy:

I was under the impression foreign workers have a 12h travel/wait timer...does that just get reset endlessly then?

As always, there is never a simple answer with this game. The "12 hour" time period varies in length depending on where the foreigner is waiting at:

• Foreign workers will wait up to 8.333 days (500 seconds on slow speed) at the customs house.
  
• Foreign workers will wait up to 10 days (600 seconds on slow speed) at a station; the only time this isn't true is when waiting at a station that is linked to another station they can wait at, in which case they will wait the same time citizens will: for 1 day (60 seconds on slow speed).

Are you sure for the 10 days? I seem to remember they almost instantly ran away when i had them get off at a station using the change line checkbox....(at least when I started my current run after full release)

[Silent_Shadow]

Originally posted by Incrediblejimmy:

* do I read your fuel formula correctly, in that I can generally more or less expect the most efficient outcome for all types of vehicles if I go for lowest power per capacity then?

Speed is important too, but those three stats seem to be the only major factors on fuel economy. Keep in mind that running stuff at reduced speed or with partial loads will reduce their fuel economy, so try to pick the right capacity for the job and keep the speed limits of your routes and traffic in mind.

Fuel consumption also goes up a lot if the vehicle is accelerating, so routes with more stops and intersections will result in a lower average fuel economy. Vehicles with low power to weight ratios also reduce the vehicle throughput at intersections and buildings, so fuel consumption may not be as important then.