State of the game?

[Barbarian]

Yes, is it in a good shape now? I bought it on the first release on Steam and have waited for it to come closer to full release. Your opinions?

[keng]

引用自 ginugagap：

Where are those bugs and flaws? The only thing I noticed are rare crashes, mostly when placing buildings on "complicated" terrain, but autosave helps a lot.
Mostly people cry about stuff they didnt figure out yet (yes, the game is very complicated) and they call that bugs or flaws;

- The fact that the game simply closes when trying to build a building is just trash. This is not a bug, this is not a flaw - in principle this should not exist at all. But yes, we have autosave, log file, suppor, community, etc. This justifies everything. Let's just not pay attention to it. (Linux +1)
- Residents in the game have a need to go to church. But there is not a single church on the list of buildings. But it's not a problem! After all, you can easily guess that you need to go to the workshop and download the building that you liked yourself. This is freedom of choice! (Linux +2)
- In the default game there are one, two or three vehicles for each category. Cmon, just download a few gigabytes of mods! They are really made by other different people, without any standards. Yes, two identical trucks can carry 2 tons of cargo or 5 tons. And small bus can easily accommodate even more than a hundred people. One model may be meticulously detailed, while another may look like a cartoon for a two-year-old. Well, because every author is his own free artist. Of course, you can open the mod folder and easily fix anything you don't like. But why? Will I still have time to play? And don't forget that the author can change anything in his mod at any time. Does it update automatically? Is it good or bad? (Linux +3)
- The rails at the tram stop are not fully drawn. And if an ordinary road approaches the tram tracks, then at this intersection there are no rails at all. But this does not interfere with the tram ride! The traction substation floats in the air and casts a shadow. And there are hundreds of such things in the game. Ok, let's just take a bird's eye view.
In a small grocery store that sells both bread and meat, you can set up auto purchases only for bread. There is simply no such option for meat.
The shopping mall has a food storage area of 4 tons. The step for auto purchases is 2t. In total, you have three options: don’t buy anything, buy half a storage unit or a full one.
Utilities can only serve within a 1 or 2 km radius. There is no option to choose 300 or 1300 meters.
Sewer pipes can be laid any way you like, but it won’t work. You have to figure out how to arrange them yourself. Hint: depth from the surface is not the same as depth from sea level. And the depth from sea level is not displayed in any way.
I can go on with this for hours. Or pretend it doesn't exist. Of course, by the time of release it will all be fixed, configured and tuned. Some day. Maybe. We hope. We wait. (Linux +4)
= Fanatical community. If you see any disadvantages in the game, then you are a stupid crybaby, you haven’t figured it out, it’s too difficult for you, and in general this game is not for you, get out of here, go play Windows Cities Skylines! (Linux +100!)

Yes, I worked as a Linux software developer. Therefore, I know this ecosystem very well.
For me this game is not difficult. It's really well thought out and interesting. I can imagine how much work this is, but it seems the developers can’t handle it. They lack people, or time, or organization of the process. It looks more like the work of passionate people, but not a company.
I think they should start with some standardization, make everything uniform, and focus on polishing the existing content. Extension the game and adding new content to it is not a problem. The problem is to adjust the game mechanics, to obsolete existing problems. Because this won’t fix itself, and as the game grows, the number of problems will increase.

[Strategic Sage]

引用自 ginugagap：

Where are those bugs and flaws? The only thing I noticed are rare crashes, mostly when placing buildings on "complicated" terrain, but autosave helps a lot.

Leaving aside the other largely trollish reply by another poster which nonetheless contains some good points, I'll say that if that's really the only flaw you saw, I don't know what game you're playing. I think WRSR has huge potential. It also is one that needs several months of polish at a minimum, and according to dev statements they plan on a much shorter timetable. It gets a pass on a lot of that stuff *for now* from me because it is in Early Access. Loud complaints at this point are premature for that reason. But if it were released in it's current state, and flaws evaluated, I would say the following:

- The campaign, as I've stated in multiple other places, is a disaster. It's trying to be a campaign and a tutorial, and fails on both counts.
- Various balance issues.
- Most egregiously, WRSR makes itself very hard to learn. By that I mean, I don't object to it's complexity, but that complexity is very poorly documented in most cases. Compared to other complex games such as Factorio (other examples could be used), it is incredibly difficult and frustrating to learn. It is clear significant efforts have been made on this, such as the error messages that factories and other buildings show for example, but a *lot* more needs to be done.

For example:

- The whole button for 'planned infrastructure' is easy to miss, you can't click on planned voltage lines so it gives the impression that you've done something wrong because you *can* click on other planned items such as roads.
- Workers not going automatically to road construction when they do go to building construction is not explained anywhere I can see to the player, and again gives the impression that something is broken.
- Educated workers consuming more electronics is not explained, and other similar corners.
- The impact of station length is not explained. Whether it refers to the measurement including or not including the locomotive is not explained. Min. wagons at the train DO doesn't actually do what it says. Etc.
- Navigating the tech tree is a bad joke.

One could keep going, but basically there's no acceptable in-game help/documentation so players are left pawing through pile after frustrating pile to understand how the game works. The ministers give much valuable information, leaving the typos and poor translation aside, but there is much they don't say and for example the Minister of Health says that border walls and strikes are planned features, but the devs say no more significant features are going to be added before 1.0, so which is it?

Basically the game is just not finished, or near it. There are way too many barriers to players actually enjoying the good it contains.

[Strategic Sage]

引用自 ginugagap：

Why is everyone allways saying that?

Because it's a direct path to frustration for most players. On Realistic, which is a fine goal to get to, you can spend many many hours on each of many attempts only to fail due to a mechanic you had no way of knowing because of the aforementioned documentation issue but also because you didn't get to it yet. Of course you can change the options in midstream, but that defeats the point of starting on 'hardest settings'.

引用自 ginugagap：

after 23 years of most intensive gaming I have to say: Best game yet. Nothing compares.

'Best game' is not a thing. It literally doesn't exist.

[Bufnitza]

引用自 Strategic Sage：

引用自 ginugagap：

Why is everyone allways saying that?

Because it's a direct path to frustration for most players. On Realistic, which is a fine goal to get to, you can spend many many hours on each of many attempts only to fail due to a mechanic you had no way of knowing because of the aforementioned documentation issue but also because you didn't get to it yet. Of course you can change the options in midstream, but that defeats the point of starting on 'hardest settings'.

I'm a testament to this. I've restarted half a dozen games on realistic after several days of playtime because I fun-ducked something and I couldn't recover. Realistic mode is very punishing, but I personally enjoy hitting my head against a brick wall until blood comes out.

That's not to say I believe this should be the de-facto player experience. Not at all and in fact, I wish this was better, but I am cutting some slack since this is barely a indie-level development team. If this was the case for a studio with huge cashflow and dozens of people, it would be unacceptable. Oh, wait... Does that remind me of Cities something-something?...

[Bufnitza]

引用自 keng：

引用自 ginugagap：

Where are those bugs and flaws? The only thing I noticed are rare crashes, mostly when placing buildings on "complicated" terrain, but autosave helps a lot.
Mostly people cry about stuff they didnt figure out yet (yes, the game is very complicated) and they call that bugs or flaws;

- The fact that the game simply closes when trying to build a building is just trash. This is not a bug, this is not a flaw - in principle this should not exist at all. But yes, we have autosave, log file, suppor, community, etc. This justifies everything. Let's just not pay attention to it. (Linux +1)
- Residents in the game have a need to go to church. But there is not a single church on the list of buildings. But it's not a problem! After all, you can easily guess that you need to go to the workshop and download the building that you liked yourself. This is freedom of choice! (Linux +2)
- In the default game there are one, two or three vehicles for each category. Cmon, just download a few gigabytes of mods! They are really made by other different people, without any standards. Yes, two identical trucks can carry 2 tons of cargo or 5 tons. And small bus can easily accommodate even more than a hundred people. One model may be meticulously detailed, while another may look like a cartoon for a two-year-old. Well, because every author is his own free artist. Of course, you can open the mod folder and easily fix anything you don't like. But why? Will I still have time to play? And don't forget that the author can change anything in his mod at any time. Does it update automatically? Is it good or bad? (Linux +3)
- The rails at the tram stop are not fully drawn. And if an ordinary road approaches the tram tracks, then at this intersection there are no rails at all. But this does not interfere with the tram ride! The traction substation floats in the air and casts a shadow. And there are hundreds of such things in the game. Ok, let's just take a bird's eye view.
In a small grocery store that sells both bread and meat, you can set up auto purchases only for bread. There is simply no such option for meat.
The shopping mall has a food storage area of 4 tons. The step for auto purchases is 2t. In total, you have three options: don’t buy anything, buy half a storage unit or a full one.
Utilities can only serve within a 1 or 2 km radius. There is no option to choose 300 or 1300 meters.
Sewer pipes can be laid any way you like, but it won’t work. You have to figure out how to arrange them yourself. Hint: depth from the surface is not the same as depth from sea level. And the depth from sea level is not displayed in any way.
I can go on with this for hours. Or pretend it doesn't exist. Of course, by the time of release it will all be fixed, configured and tuned. Some day. Maybe. We hope. We wait. (Linux +4)
= Fanatical community. If you see any disadvantages in the game, then you are a stupid crybaby, you haven’t figured it out, it’s too difficult for you, and in general this game is not for you, get out of here, go play Windows Cities Skylines! (Linux +100!)

Yes, I worked as a Linux software developer. Therefore, I know this ecosystem very well.
For me this game is not difficult. It's really well thought out and interesting. I can imagine how much work this is, but it seems the developers can’t handle it. They lack people, or time, or organization of the process. It looks more like the work of passionate people, but not a company.
I think they should start with some standardization, make everything uniform, and focus on polishing the existing content. Extension the game and adding new content to it is not a problem. The problem is to adjust the game mechanics, to obsolete existing problems. Because this won’t fix itself, and as the game grows, the number of problems will increase.

You know what? I think you're being more than just a little unfair here...

Your complaints are all valid, but you're disconsidering the imbalance between the scale of this product and the development team working on it.

Is it buggy? Hell yeah! Is it unnerving to use? You bet!

But it's also complex, deep and wide. A lot more complex and a lot deeper and wider than many other games in the genre who have had a lot more cash and a lot more hands on deck working on it!

Also, don't diss the modding community. That's such a cheap shot that it's not even funny. You don't like some mods, don't use them, but every person who spends their free time to work on a passionate task, regardless of how professional the outcome is, deserves some gratitude.

Again your complaints are valid. The way you're expressing them is obnoxious.

[ginugagap]

woah, ill have to answer directly, without a lot ot qoutes, or this will get too complicated; just one quote i think is REALLY good:

引用自 Strategic Sage：

引用自 ginugagap：

Where are those bugs and flaws? The only thing I noticed are rare crashes, mostly when placing buildings on "complicated" terrain, but autosave helps a lot.

Leaving aside the other largely trollish reply by another poster which nonetheless contains some good points, I'll say that if that's really the only flaw you saw, I don't know what game you're playing. I think WRSR has huge potential. It also is one that needs several months of polish at a minimum, and according to dev statements they plan on a much shorter timetable.

you are absolutely right;
and to the "Linux developer" named with a large random number, i have to say:
i get your point, reguarding the fanatical communitie for half bread software. please dont blame the communitie, iff someone here is being fanatic, its just me;

BUT: I got a a lot of full price, large studio stuff in my time, for all kinds of money. large advertising, franchises and all. they are not less buggy and not more balanced as W&R

Just today i looked: CSL 1, collectors edition, 50% off: 230something euro.

I paied 25 euro for W&R, and i am having fun i never thought id have again playing video games ;)

Yes, there are issues. sometimes things dont look sosmooth. great. i still love to play pharaoh from 1998, resolution 800X600;
its about the game,not the graphics.

I could also say some stuff on flaws that really bugged me, but mostly it was me doing stuff wrong or there was an easy and obvious way around it (as it tends to be in reality too ...)

so, in a world of rising casualitie , vanillarism, useless computer resource lavishness, show-off graphics, ten launchers you have to install to finally play a game,
of shameless monetarisation in every imaginable way,
for me, this game was kinda an epiphany;
noone has to like it. i do.

and reguarding the ad personam: linux developers who never coded anything they dreamed of of cause envy coders who actually acomplish anything.

[ginugagap]

oh, yes, btw @ Strategic Sage: you are right about the campaigns. there is a thread where i complain about too little information, the lack of a manual etc. especially for a game that complicated. but seriously, iff there was a manual, who would really read it?
people still would flame in the forum about things not working ;)
so, i guess i should stay away from social media again and start replanning my pipelines

[Strategic Sage]

Well manuals are the old way. I wouldn't expect people to read a manual, but having such information in-game in a searchable form has been done effectively by many games .

[keng]

引用自 Bufnitza：

Your complaints are all valid, but you're disconsidering the imbalance between the scale of this product and the development team working on it.

I'm not complaining, just stating facts.
You're right. I have no idea who is developing this game, how many people there are, or what problems they have.
From my own experience I can say that usually the end user of a product does not care about problems of developers. The user has paid money and has the right to demand a full-fledged, stably functioning product.
Topic starter asked a question about the state of the game. Short answer: running beta state with predictable problems and missing content.
But they started telling him how big and complex the game is and how difficult to be developers. And in the end they descended into discussing my personality.

Also, don't diss the modding community. That's such a cheap shot that it's not even funny. You don't like some mods, don't use them, but every person who spends their free time to work on a passionate task, regardless of how professional the outcome is, deserves some gratitude.

No complaints to modders. Everyone does what they can and hwo whey want. And we need to give credit to those who do it well.
The only complaint is against the developers who cannot fill the game with original content.

Again your complaints are valid. The way you're expressing them is obnoxious.

Sorry girls, I didn't know you were so sensitive.

[Bufnitza]

Ignorant, rude, sexist. Wow, you're a bounty of good traits

[Barbarian]

Why is this thread becoming more and more toxic?

[Lex713]

Please behave or I will have to close this thread

[Greybeard]

引用自 Barbarian：

Why is this thread becoming more and more toxic?

It started with a toxic tone to be fair... "State of the game" is typically a question you see with presumed-dead games or ones that make no progress at all, often from disgruntled users or trolls. WR:SR is not even properly released yet and has made HUGE progress over the last 4 years so that question sounds a little bit odd. Peter and his team have achieved way more than some AAA studios in the same timeframe and heaps more money to spend.

Anyhow, my take on the state of this game: It started great, improved and grew in complexity, stability and performance constantly, while the devs were very actively crushing bugs and helping lowly users (such as myself) fixing individual savegames even. Is it perfect yet? No. Nothing ever is. But it is hands down the best city/nation builder there is right now. Do I trust it to get to being as close to perfect as realistically possible? Absolutely. Keep on rocking, Peter!

[Barbarian]

引用自 Greybeard：

引用自 Barbarian：

Why is this thread becoming more and more toxic?

It started with a toxic tone to be fair... "State of the game" is typically a question you see with presumed-dead games or ones that make no progress at all, often from disgruntled users or trolls. WR:SR is not even properly released yet and has made HUGE progress over the last 4 years so that question sounds a little bit odd. Peter and his team have achieved way more than some AAA studios in the same timeframe and heaps more money to spend.

This is unfair. I had a simple question and wanted to know what all those players who have played since start and followed the progress have to say. It is sad that you percieve my OP as a toxic one but you are wrong.

[Greybeard]

Apologies, I should have phrased that a little better. I did not mean to imply that your question was toxic, but similar questions in many other game forums often are meant to stir up heated debate. Sorry if I tared you with the same brush.