Police system sounds boring

[Novu]

Chasing down petty crime is so vanilla. This isn't SimCity. Crime is a construct of capitalism in which the inherent inequality of the system causes people to covet other people's property. In a socialist society there is no such thing as crime as we know it because Private property doesn't exist. People don't steal from shops because the goods in the shops are free. There is generally no money to steel anyway. Remove the apple of discord and there is no discord. More info on Marxist crime theory. https://revisesociology.com/2016/06/04/marxist-theory-crime/

The main type of crime that occurs in socialist countries is crimes against industry, sabotage, and counter revolutionary activity to overthrow the socialist state and reestablish capitalism. These are the kind of things the police should seek to punish.

I want to be able to crack down on escapes and enforce government loyalty. Send disloyal citizens to re-education camps and build gulags. The job of the police force should be to stop counter revolutionary actives and apprehend enemies of the state, not chase down thieves.

[Delle(DK)]

Цитата допису Novu:

Police system sounds boring.

I dont agree be carefull what you say comrad since the police is watching and you might get the big tour once they knock on your door so you wont get bored. ;-)
be carefull critizing the system even if you have friends in high places there is no gurantees.
what you gona do when they come for you ha ha

[Novu]

Цитата допису Delle(DK):

what you gona do when they come for you ha ha
:soviet:

Pronounce my undying love for Marx, Lenin, and Stalin while professing my unwavering loyalty to the socialist system. Neither under torture nor pain of death shall I renounce communism. Down with capitalism forever. Death to the bourgeoisie.

Союз нерушимый республик свободных
Сплотила навеки Великая Русь.
Да здравствует созданный волей народов
Единый, могучий Советский Союз!

Славься, Отечество наше свободное,
Дружбы народов надёжный оплот!
Партия Ленина - сила народная
Нас к торжеству коммунизма ведёт!

Сквозь грозы сияло нам солнце свободы,
И Ленин великий нам путь озарил,
На правое дело он поднял народы,
На труд и на подвиги нас вдохновил.

Славься, Отечество наше свободное,
Дружбы народов надёжный оплот!
Партия Ленина - сила народная
Нас к торжеству коммунизма ведёт!

В победе бессмертных идей коммунизма
Мы видим грядущее нашей страны
И Красному знамени славной Отчизны
Мы будем всегда беззаветно верны!

Славься, Отечество наше свободное,
Дружбы народов надёжный оплот!
Партия Ленина - сила народная
Нас к торжеству коммунизма ведёт!

[Chilli-Göttinger]

citizens dont commit crimes. crimes are always commited by foreign agents and counterrevoluzionary elements. why police when already every and each true citizen is part of the ministry for state security? better give the option to mirror buildings, better informed citizens to visit kindergartens next to them or the military industrial complex!

[Bastardo]

Do you really think this discussion on ideal types of politicial philosofies and systems will help the devs improving a game roughly simulating a non-ideal type of socialist system? :/

[MG83]

Цитата допису ryantheskinny:

You dont think all that vodka isnt going to have harmful effects?

Such as: alcoholism, public intoxication, fights, etc.

i actually belived that ideology in past. However thats the religious dogma. Religious ideology based on reprresison of mind. Check any "holy" book you will read more threat than love. "do this you will burn in hell do that you will burn in hell". During the state of drunkness generally subconciousness of a person surfaces.Which means repressed behaviours reeks out. i have friends who drinks and i do not. When i was young i lost my first friend to cirrochis and therefore i dont drink however i spend time with them when they get drunk and i generally become driver. This gave me opportunity to observe the behviour of other people. People who are good hearted and educated even they get drunk they do not go haywire or creep they become more sweet and friendly to tell the truth. i seen that many times and clearly observed that religious dogma is biased becouse its own repression causes those actions to surface thus people who are repressed who hides their rottensides generally blurts out as you have stated. I observed this situation in many parties big work meetings that has free alcohol birth day parties and so on.

As harmful effect yes there are harmful effects to health . Deterioration of liver , cardiovascular system nerve system hand eye coordination loss of motor muscle function loss of conciousnes etc.

Chronic alcoholism is the main problematic side of alcohol use.
However drinking a small amount of wine everyday keeps the mind fresh. This sound like joke but no. we had family friend who lived to 92 year old she drank small amount of wine everyday and her mind was crystal clear.

implementing some reduce on life expectancy for citizens who has high alcohol demand would simulate this in mu opinion

[ryantheskinny]

Цитата допису MG83:

Цитата допису ryantheskinny:

You dont think all that vodka isnt going to have harmful effects?

Such as: alcoholism, public intoxication, fights, etc.

i actually belived that ideology in past. However thats the religious dogma. Religious ideology based on reprresison of mind. Check any "holy" book you will read more threat than love. "do this you will burn in hell do that you will burn in hell". During the state of drunkness generally subconciousness of a person surfaces.Which means repressed behaviours reeks out. i have friends who drinks and i do not. When i was young i lost my first friend to cirrochis and therefore i dont drink however i spend time with them when they get drunk and i generally become driver. This gave me opportunity to observe the behviour of other people. People who are good hearted and educated even they get drunk they do not go haywire or creep they become more sweet and friendly to tell the truth. i seen that many times and clearly observed that religious dogma is biased becouse its own repression causes those actions to surface thus people who are repressed who hides their rottensides generally blurts out as you have stated. I observed this situation in many parties big work meetings that has free alcohol birth day parties and so on.

As harmful effect yes there are harmful effects to health . Deterioration of liver , cardiovascular system nerve system hand eye coordination loss of motor muscle function loss of conciousnes etc.

Chronic alcoholism is the main problematic side of alcohol use.
However drinking a small amount of wine everyday keeps the mind fresh. This sound like joke but no. we had family friend who lived to 92 year old she drank small amount of wine everyday and her mind was crystal clear.

implementing some reduce on life expectancy for citizens who has high alcohol demand would simulate this in mu opinion

You can bring religion into it if you want. Mine has no problem with drinking so its a mute point.

The soviets however had an extensive propaganda campaign aimed at what i am talking about and that is to which i am referring. Religion has absolutely no bearing on this topic. But its a nice strawman to attack.

[6toros6]

So, given that:

• Crime *will* be in the game
  
• It will be optional

People who think that it shouldn't be there, just turn it off and don't prevent others to enjoy it if they like.

Being practical, what sort of crime is or if is it possible in an communist utopia are irrelevant questions. Maybe the relevant questions could be:

1. What will make crime rate go up in the game?
   
2. What will be the role and mechanics of the police, judges, etc.?
   
3. What would happen if crime rate is high and police and alike are in short amount?

My wish:

1. Crime rate goes up when the player isn't proficient enough to give the people high living standards
   
2. I'd like to have some citizens in the role of criminals and some in the role of police patrols. If the latter discover the former, crime is prevented and the criminal is sent to prison.
   
3. I'd like to see some kind of sabotage: road obstruction or even destruction, raw materials disappearing, etc.

That way, you can either provide the people or if not really possible in some places, at least have police to attenuate the consequences.

[ryantheskinny]

Цитата допису 6toros6:

So, given that:

• Crime *will* be in the game
  
• It will be optional

People who think that it shouldn't be there, just turn it off and don't prevent others to enjoy it if they like.

Being practical, what sort of crime is or if is it possible in an communist utopia are irrelevant questions. Maybe the relevant questions could be:

1. What will make crime rate go up in the game?
   
2. What will be the role and mechanics of the police, judges, etc.?
   
3. What would happen if crime rate is high and police and alike are in short amount?

My wish:

1. Crime rate goes up when the player isn't proficient enough to give the people high living standards
   
2. I'd like to have some citizens in the role of criminals and some in the role of police patrols. If the latter discover the former, crime is prevented and the criminal is sent to prison.
   
3. I'd like to see some kind of sabotage: road obstruction or even destruction, raw materials disappearing, etc.

That way, you can either provide the people or if not really possible in some places, at least have police to attenuate the consequences.

Thanks for you non political contribution to this thread. And my thoughts are very similar it should be a punishment on the player for failure to provide the QoL that the worker desires. Could me different per worker even. Some ppl just really like space, food etc.

So sure skimp on meat, some workers will try to get it other ways or act violently. No alcohol? Same could happen with workers with high alchoholism. Destroy a church? Now the religious workers are angry. A worker didnt get cllothes last time he went to the store due to a shortage or long lines? Now hes stealing from his neighbor who did.

Hopefully riots and strikes will be included as well as the ability to combat poor working conditions via other means.

[polcorp]

Цитата допису ryantheskinny:

Цитата допису 6toros6:

So, given that:

• Crime *will* be in the game
  
• It will be optional

People who think that it shouldn't be there, just turn it off and don't prevent others to enjoy it if they like.

Being practical, what sort of crime is or if is it possible in an communist utopia are irrelevant questions. Maybe the relevant questions could be:

1. What will make crime rate go up in the game?
   
2. What will be the role and mechanics of the police, judges, etc.?
   
3. What would happen if crime rate is high and police and alike are in short amount?

My wish:

1. Crime rate goes up when the player isn't proficient enough to give the people high living standards
   
2. I'd like to have some citizens in the role of criminals and some in the role of police patrols. If the latter discover the former, crime is prevented and the criminal is sent to prison.
   
3. I'd like to see some kind of sabotage: road obstruction or even destruction, raw materials disappearing, etc.

That way, you can either provide the people or if not really possible in some places, at least have police to attenuate the consequences.

Thanks for you non political contribution to this thread. And my thoughts are very similar it should be a punishment on the player for failure to provide the QoL that the worker desires. Could me different per worker even. Some ppl just really like space, food etc.

So sure skimp on meat, some workers will try to get it other ways or act violently. No alcohol? Same could happen with workers with high alchoholism. Destroy a church? Now the religious workers are angry. A worker didnt get cllothes last time he went to the store due to a shortage or long lines? Now hes stealing from his neighbor who did.

Hopefully riots and strikes will be included as well as the ability to combat poor working conditions via other means.

Strongly agree (and also agree with RyanTheSkinny's answer).

For my part on another thread, I proposed the idea of ​​doctrines that the player can regulate in intensity (with more or less), each doctrine then having positive or negative effects depending on the regulation chosen.
For example, to face an immediate problem, a player can put a doctrine to the maximum or to the minimum, knowing that this regulation will have perverse effects in the long term.

I also mentioned the idea that the Party headquarters have doctrines to unlock (just like the Technical University). And that these unblockable doctrines are necessary to be able to build police stations, courts and prisons.
This would give the Party headquarters a real role.

And why not train the police, judges and prison guards at Party headquarters? Citizens would then follow a normal student course, then specialize in studies taken at Party headquarters.

[KungFury]

Цитата допису 6toros6:

So, given that:

• Crime *will* be in the game
  
• It will be optional

People who think that it shouldn't be there, just turn it off and don't prevent others to enjoy it if they like.

Being practical, what sort of crime is or if is it possible in an communist utopia are irrelevant questions. Maybe the relevant questions could be:

1. What will make crime rate go up in the game?
   
2. What will be the role and mechanics of the police, judges, etc.?
   
3. What would happen if crime rate is high and police and alike are in short amount?

My wish:

1. Crime rate goes up when the player isn't proficient enough to give the people high living standards
   
2. I'd like to have some citizens in the role of criminals and some in the role of police patrols. If the latter discover the former, crime is prevented and the criminal is sent to prison.
   
3. I'd like to see some kind of sabotage: road obstruction or even destruction, raw materials disappearing, etc.

That way, you can either provide the people or if not really possible in some places, at least have police to attenuate the consequences.

I agree except for

1. High standard should not prevent crime. Maybe it should have a little effect but if you can prevent crime by offering all the citizens needs, then most people won't have any crime at all. My people always have everything because it's too simple to to offer it.
Density, living quality and loyalty should have the biggest impact on crime.

[SPQRattus]

Living standards can (and should) be more multifaceted than they are, and demands for it can rise over time. Your citizens just moved from shabby village houses to a lovely high rise? Sure, they'll be pretty happy then. But then a new, better apartment building goes up, and suddenly they have neighbors crowing about their wonderful living situations, and... that old Stalinka doesn't seem so great any more! Similarly once you start providing other luxuries. Basically, the perception of inequality can be a source of the dissatisfaction that leads to crime.

Meanwhile, as for policing, I have a few thoughts I have been mulling about what police really is and does - and it seems to be three things to me:

• Enforcement of order and handling low grade violence (i.e. drunken brawling, loud parties, etc.)
  
• Mediation of disputes (between spouses, neighbors, families, etc. that don't warrant civil suits etc.)
  
• Investigation of crimes such as murders, thefts, etc., enabling the apprehension of the culprit

Now those three ended up done by the same agency largely by historical accident - an upshot of old city guard corps etc. - but there's no need for them to be so. You could devise multiple "police" corps that handle each one or two of these. Even if you don't, the resources needed for each are distinct, meaning that having one or more 'travelling teams' of skilled investigators, for instance, allows handling that job over a wider area, all while having local police that handles the enforcement and mediation tasks.

That strikes me as something that ought to be included in the game!

[Marcus Aurelius]

After forcing myself to read the entire thread, I just wantted to express my personal opinion about this discussion.
Really, I don't understand how people can dive into such flaming, emotional debates when writing about a GAME. I do agree that WRSR is the very best of all the games I played, but it is still a game, and the universal reason of playing games is having fun.
As I wrote earlier, I bought WRSR on the very first day it was released in March 2019, and I still have a lot of pleasure playing it. Let me explain why.
WRSR is a very complex, rich and non-coercive game. The devs have built-in the possibility to play with or without some options, but also using or not some features and still realise your plans/dreams/projects.
My personal gameplay philosophy is to ttry out all the features, and choose the ones I will use and those I won't. And I am not driven by political arguments. Just one practical example: if their would be gulags in the game, I wouldn't use them, baecause of the moral implications. If my citzens want to escape, I'd let them go, or fullfil their needs.
Here is a list of options/features I never use, but it is my own choice, and not something another player imposed on me.
Personal cars, forklift garages, greenhouses, day/nignt cycle, helis at hospitals, cableways to transport workers to the power plant, freight planes, build footpaths with CO, containers, cheatmods, farming etc.
Now, concerning the police/justice system, I will try it out when the moment has come, and I will decide if I use it or not and to what extension.
Probably this philosophy is the reason why I still have fun playing WRSR after nearly 5000 hours according to Steam.

[ALE199]

Цитата допису Wartburger:

After forcing myself to read the entire thread, I just wantted to express my personal opinion about this discussion.
Really, I don't understand how people can dive into such flaming, emotional debates when writing about a GAME. I do agree that WRSR is the very best of all the games I played, but it is still a game, and the universal reason of playing games is having fun.
As I wrote earlier, I bought WRSR on the very first day it was released in March 2019, and I still have a lot of pleasure playing it. Let me explain why.
WRSR is a very complex, rich and non-coercive game. The devs have built-in the possibility to play with or without some options, but also using or not some features and still realise your plans/dreams/projects.
My personal gameplay philosophy is to ttry out all the features, and choose the ones I will use and those I won't. And I am not driven by political arguments. Just one practical example: if their would be gulags in the game, I wouldn't use them, baecause of the moral implications. If my citzens want to escape, I'd let them go, or fullfil their needs.
Here is a list of options/features I never use, but it is my own choice, and not something another player imposed on me.
Personal cars, forklift garages, greenhouses, day/nignt cycle, helis at hospitals, cableways to transport workers to the power plant, freight planes, build footpaths with CO, containers, cheatmods, farming etc.
Now, concerning the police/justice system, I will try it out when the moment has come, and I will decide if I use it or not and to what extension.
Probably this philosophy is the reason why I still have fun playing WRSR after nearly 5000 hours according to Steam.

well, in gameplay sense, what do you think of gulags where you have prisoners doing basic education jobs and may or may not get fed?

[Marcus Aurelius]

Purely gameplay wise, I prefer using a workforce composed of happy citizens with all their needs fullfilled, because the game mechanic makes them more productive than unhappy people. So, with this logic in mind, no gulags for me, because I'm sure that inmates of a gulag would be very unhappy, thus very unproductive. Slave labour is never as productive as free, happy citizens. For me it's much more fun creating a happy, productive society. My citizens only escape because of lack of housing when I can't keep up with births.

[Chilli-Göttinger]

we do not need a prison, we need to lock down people in the power plants so they dont leave all at once and stop producing socialist electricity.