Workers & Resources: Soviet Republic

Workers & Resources: Soviet Republic

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Bufnitza Feb 29, 2024 @ 7:30am
[Suggestion] Tweak to garbage trucks
I'm not even sure if anyone from 3division even reads these suggestions, but I'm gonna post them anyway. I've been experimenting with various setups for garbage lately and while I got the system working quite decently, there's still something that's a major bother for me.


I've got the small container garbage posts set up for my city in the format 7xMixed 2xMetal 2xPlastic 7xBio.

This seems to be a very well-rounded setup for urban waste generation. What's bothering me, though, is that trucks are still quite inefficient, in two ways:

1. Once a truck has set off and collected from the first destination, it looks like the search radius for other garbage bins to pick up is rather small. This is a major problem for me when it comes to plastics, for example, but also happens for mixed and bio waste too. It loads 0.48t from 2 posts and then goes to the dump, despite having a post with full plastic 500m away. The active search area while driving should be expanded to the entirety of the Tech Services building setting (1000/2000/3000m)

2. If I have multiple dump trucks in the TS building, sometimes 2 or even 3 of them will go out to pick the same type of waste, from 3 different posts, despite one of them being able to do it, and even more efficiently. What's worse, this can also happen when a truck is returning from the dump/incinerator, 4km away. That means that 2-3 trucks sit idle in my TS while a garbage post 200m away from the TS is overflowing and creating pollution, waiting for the truck coming from its trip 4km away. This is a lot worse in winter, when traffic is slower.

While I don't see a solution for 2, save some change in the code handling garbage collection, I wonder if there's any hidden setting in some file that could help with point #1. If point #1 would be doable, then #2 can be mitigated by simply using fewer trucks.

Ideally, I would also love a setting which allows some garbage trucks to pick up only specific waste. This way, I won't have 3 trucks picking up mixed waste at the same time while plastic is full.

Thanks!
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Showing 1-11 of 11 comments
Silent_Shadow Feb 29, 2024 @ 4:00pm 
The solution is trucks on a line:
• Never skip a stand.
• Can be configured for specific waste types.
• Better selection of trucks.
• No technical office required.

The only requirement is that all stands need a road connection.
leftbehind Feb 29, 2024 @ 6:00pm 
Putting garbage trucks on a line is a complete nightmare.

First, as you said, it mandates the trash bins be connected to a road. Roads waste lots of space in a city.

Then there's the issue that once the truck has collected any amount of one type of trash, it will visit every single stand on the line trying to find more of that type of trash. So you might need 4 garabge trucks to maximise chance that they will pick up each kind of trash.

Also, because it's a line, they're not visiting the most full trash first, it could work out that there's an overflowing trash on the last stop, but by time trucks get there they're already full, so now you need even more trucks on the line.

Additionally, you will have to constantly update the line as more trash bins are added to the city.

And, finally, because the trucks are constantly on the move, they will obviously need repairing more often. Not to mention additional traffic load on the city.

As for better selection of trucks, I'm not sure what you mean. But even if that were the case, why can't the Tech Services (TS) office accommodate that?

The main benefit of a TS is that it frees time for the player to focus on other stuff.
Silent_Shadow Feb 29, 2024 @ 7:30pm 
Originally posted by leftbehind:
First, as you said, it mandates the trash bins be connected to a road. Roads waste lots of space in a city.
Not really. Apartments can be connected to the road and thus the waste stands by footpaths, so you really only need the one or two main roads that the local bus service uses anyway. You can also just cluster your apartments around a stand or two like a cul-de-sac and connect them to a main road.

Originally posted by leftbehind:
Then there's the issue that once the truck has collected any amount of one type of trash, it will visit every single stand on the line trying to find more of that type of trash. So you might need 4 garabge trucks to maximise chance that they will pick up each kind of trash.
Assuming they have space, garbage trucks on a line will empty a specific waste bin regardless of whether it is full or not, so these bins have time to accumulate waste while the truck does another run for the other wastes.

The technical office will happily send out a truck to collect a ton of plastic waste, see that the other plastics bins are only at half a ton, conclude none of them need pickup, and then have the truck return to return to the TO after driving to the waste disposal center. Then later all when all of the other plastics bins call for pickup at once, the TO will not have enough trucks to collect from them all before some start overflowing.

Originally posted by leftbehind:
Also, because it's a line, they're not visiting the most full trash first, it could work out that there's an overflowing trash on the last stop, but by time trucks get there they're already full, so now you need even more trucks on the line.
The overall trash generation rate doesn't change if you sort it or not, so the required number of trucks comes down to how well you can set up their line or technical office. Trucks on a line get better throughput because they spend most of their time driving between stands, while technical offices need to have trucks take suboptimal routes at best.

Originally posted by leftbehind:
Additionally, you will have to constantly update the line as more trash bins are added to the city.
How often do you add trash bins to a city, let alone a district or town? I would argue about as often as new bus stops, so you would only be adding/adjusting lines every now and then.

Originally posted by leftbehind:
And, finally, because the trucks are constantly on the move, they will obviously need repairing more often. Not to mention additional traffic load on the city.
Or you could have them wait at the trash bins or facilities with the highest trash generation rate. There is no difference in having them wait there or at a technical office, except that you paid extra for the technical office.

You also have the issue where the garbage truck has to go to and from the technical office to waste stands and the disposal center. While the trucks on a line only go to the waste stands and the waste disposal center.

Originally posted by leftbehind:
As for better selection of trucks, I'm not sure what you mean. But even if that were the case, why can't the Tech Services (TS) office accommodate that?
The small bin trucks have a much wider range of stats than the large stand trucks, namely smaller and very cheap trucks, like the GZ-53m and Ifa W50, and larger, faster trucks like the Rmn 12-215 and Model P.

For lines, you can select trucks suited for the required throughputs of the lines you set up, like a small cheap truck just for handling hazardous waste from hospitals so you don't accidentally contaminate an entire storage of mixed waste, or a large truck to collect all the mixed waste of a town and drive it to a long ways to a waste disposal center.

Technical offices are not very good at dispatching their trucks, they can only hold so many trucks, and players usually want them to service industries (heating/power plants, treatment plants, etc.) with large stands too, so they typically only get large stand trucks. Even if you give them small bin trucks, there isn't any way to make them fill large trucks like the Rmn 12-215 close to capacity or not send them on low amounts better suited to small trucks like the GZ-53m.

Originally posted by leftbehind:
The main benefit of a TS is that it frees time for the player to focus on other stuff.
Sure, but that's hardly an advantage when compared to the cost and build time of the technical office, the bugs associated with them (like contaminating an entire dump with hazardous waste), and the inefficiencies in the use of the trucks.

The real advantage of technical offices for waste, is that one technical office slot can back up the nearby lines' bins, which gives you some leeway if you miscalculated a line's throughput, or if the trucks need repairs or fuel. The rest of the TO slots can be spent on snowplows, and no more technical offices are required.
Bufnitza Feb 29, 2024 @ 11:34pm 
I didn't know you could use lines for garbage. Kinda late now, since my city isn't properly designed with roads, but I'll keep this in mind for the next city.

As for selection of trucks, I meant that it should be possible to assign specific trucks in the TS to only pick up specific types of waste. That way, I don't have 3 trucks going for mixed waste while my plastic waste stays full.
melkij Feb 29, 2024 @ 11:55pm 
Originally posted by Bufnitza:
I meant that it should be possible to assign specific trucks in the TS to only pick up specific types of waste. That way, I don't have 3 trucks going for mixed waste while my plastic waste stays full.
Workaround idea: Build several small tech offices instead of one large one. In one technical office, specify where to unload mixed garbage, in the others, remove the target for unloading mixed garbage. Until it is specified where to unload, the office will not send a garbage truck for this type of garbage. Done, the garbage truck is reserved for a specific type of garbage.
We still need snowplows so parking spaces would not unused. (snow clearing will even be a little more effective if you place technical offices in different places in the city)
Bufnitza Mar 1, 2024 @ 12:45am 
Originally posted by melkij:
Originally posted by Bufnitza:
I meant that it should be possible to assign specific trucks in the TS to only pick up specific types of waste. That way, I don't have 3 trucks going for mixed waste while my plastic waste stays full.
Workaround idea: Build several small tech offices instead of one large one. In one technical office, specify where to unload mixed garbage, in the others, remove the target for unloading mixed garbage. Until it is specified where to unload, the office will not send a garbage truck for this type of garbage. Done, the garbage truck is reserved for a specific type of garbage.
We still need snowplows so parking spaces would not unused. (snow clearing will even be a little more effective if you place technical offices in different places in the city)

That's actually a pretty good idea!!! Thanks!
Sirius Czech Mar 1, 2024 @ 8:14am 
I do usually combine these two ideas - having one TS with big skids that unload directly at incinerator/separation/recycling and another small one with small trucks that are going to waste collection yards (usually a big waste container storage) just outside the town. The I have an attached small DO that takes this waste out with large skids as well.

Most of this is about a setup of your own - for example the only thing producing a hazardous waste in a city is a clinic/hospital, so these two buildings gets specifically large containers, so big trucks will empty it right away without it polluting the rest of the "waste yard". You do not need many small garbage trucks in city TS, so that one can easily be small one with just a water truck as a reserve, 2 garbage trucks and 2 snoploughs. And you got everything covered. Due to small driving distances your trucks are perfectly ok and if you need, you can replace the water truck with extra garbage one and you are perfectly safe.

Also I tend to not overdo sorting near houses, as most of it can easily be sorted out ar general separation and my city containers thus consists of only few biowaste containers (6-7) and rest is mixed waste -> it is not too big of a loss for sorting it only in separation plant; I would even dare to say it is more economically viable, as less trucks are spending fuel on their ways.
Silent_Shadow Mar 1, 2024 @ 2:29pm 
Originally posted by Sirius Czech:
Most of this is about a setup of your own - for example the only thing producing a hazardous waste in a city is a clinic/hospital, so these two buildings gets specifically large containers, so big trucks will empty it right away without it polluting the rest of the "waste yard".
Supposedly hazardous waste will emit pollution in the big open stands, but not in the small bins.
Sirius Czech Mar 6, 2024 @ 5:14am 
Originally posted by Silent_Shadow:
Originally posted by Sirius Czech:
Most of this is about a setup of your own - for example the only thing producing a hazardous waste in a city is a clinic/hospital, so these two buildings gets specifically large containers, so big trucks will empty it right away without it polluting the rest of the "waste yard".
Supposedly hazardous waste will emit pollution in the big open stands, but not in the small bins.
Might have something to do with volume stored there?
Bufnitza Mar 6, 2024 @ 5:39am 
Originally posted by Sirius Czech:
Originally posted by Silent_Shadow:
Supposedly hazardous waste will emit pollution in the big open stands, but not in the small bins.
Might have something to do with volume stored there?
No, it has to do with the way it's stored.

Garbage collection stands, both small and big will not pollute if hazardous waste is stored in dedicated HW containers, but they will pollute if the HW is stored in the Mixed Waste bins. The latter case is indicated when the Mixed Waste bins become greenish. The way to "fix" this is to convert those bins into HW dedicated bins.

Transfer storage works the same way, as long as the HW is stored in dedicated HW containers, it will not pollute, but it will if it gets into Mixed Waste containers.

Regular dumps will pollute in any case.
Last edited by Bufnitza; Mar 6, 2024 @ 5:42am
Bufnitza Mar 6, 2024 @ 5:51am 
I've seem some "bug" discussions floating around with people annoyed that sometimes their garbage stands get tainted by hazardous waste.

It's not really a bug. What happens is that you have a garbage stand, say, around a hospital. You have 2 bins dedicated to HW. If at any point, those 2 bins get full, then the hospital has no choice but to store the HW in the Mixed Waste bins, thererfore, infecting them (they'll become greenish).

It's very important to have timely garbage collection so that the HW bins don't overfill.

To not risk it, I always use the big container stands for hospitals (or any other industry which produces HW), simply because big container collection is sooooooo much more reliable than small container collection.
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Date Posted: Feb 29, 2024 @ 7:30am
Posts: 11