Small vs Large garbage container stands

[Bufnitza]

Hello,

I need a second opinion on the use of small vs large garbage container stands. The way I see it, the small ones are absolutely useless and should never be used, but maybe I'm missing something... Here goes:

* They occupy similar real estate and have the same serving distance
* The footpath might be the only advantage of the small ones, but is it really that useful?
* Even the large version of the small container garbage stand doesn't fill up a single garbage truck, effectively wasting fuel and increasing traffic. Made even worse if garbage separation is enabled.

So what am I missing? What's the magic trick of the small container garbage stands that doesn't make them completely useless?

[Hellfire]

HI,

i thought that all buidings with small containers (Houses etc.) can only empty their trash to small container stands.

To point 3.), the garbage trucks are "clever" enough to chain the stand in his route, they will empty multiple stands one by one, until full, or no full stands in the area.

[Silent_Shadow]

The real distinction to make is with the garbage trucks:
• Large stand trucks are better for waste logistics (moving between facilities).
• Small bin trucks offer more options for collecting trash efficiently.

Since the waste handling facilities (waste transfer stations, dumps, etc.) favor large stand trucks with better loading and unloading speeds, they are much better for short distance jobs like pushing waste through processing facilities and to/from waste transportation options like cableways and trains.

The small bin trucks are much better suited for collecting trash because they can be tailored to the route:

• If you have a small amount of trash generation in an area (small neighborhood, or collecting a small amount of a specific waste like hazardous waste), then you could buy a GZ-53m (1961) for ~2,600 rubles to handle it instead of having to buy a 4,500+ ruble Skd 706RT (1958) for it.
  
  
• If you want to collect a lot of trash from an area and move it to a processing facility in another area, then you can get one of the larger waste trucks like the Rmn 12-215 (1973), which can go 95 km/hr with 10 tons of waste, its budget version: the LZ100 (1974), which can go 70 km/hr with 9 tons of waste, or the Mark P model (1966) that goes 80 km/hr with 9.5 tons of waste.
  
  Large stand trucks can carry only 6.5 tons and the fastest one (87 km/hr) costs the same as the Rmn 12-215, so you'll need to spend more money on more trucks to get the same throughput.
  
  
• If you need something in between, then you can use the Skd 706 small bin variant and still have the above options on as time goes on.

The main benefit of the large stands is all the storage, but this doesn't really matter because you need to empty it at some point; the real issue is ensuring that there is enough truck throughput to collect all the waste generated, and the small bin trucks are generally better at this.

As for footpath vs. road connections, I think road connections are far superior. You can use a line on them for better control/efficiency than a technical office, and trucks get better throughputs on roads with their higher speed limits than on footpaths, meaning you need fewer of them to service an area.

[Elessar_warrior]

In my experience the tecnical offices and the small ones are not efficient/practical. Every small traffic delay makes the trash overflow. And of course they never run full. And you are forced to use roads more often if you want to use lines. Every small delay triggers a "stand full" warning too.
Until they make the trucks recalculate the route on the footpath nodes (now only road nodes do this), it wont't be worth it. If you are gonna to use road stands only, you might as well use the big ones.
Not to mention more traffic and other downsides.

[LaylaTheLegendCEOofEpic]

I was just looking into this and I thought that the small bin truck might have an option to collect multiple trash cans at least and that I just missed something

[Phoenix]

Originally posted by LaylaTheLegendCEOofEpic:

I was just looking into this and I thought that the small bin truck might have an option to collect multiple trash cans at least and that I just missed something

They, theoretically, can, but, being assigned to Technical Offices, they extremely rarely ever visit more than 2 stands at once (because of pathfinding algorithm), thus being very ineffective in terms of capacity.

Iirc, instead of TO, you can set up line(s) that visits all the stands consequtively, but a) you sort of replacing automated TO job with manual micromanagement, and b) there has to be road access to garbage stands to make a line, not a footpath access. And if you have a road access, you could just simply plop big container stands instead of smal ones and still keep the system headache-free. Thus, line system should fit fine for very small towns, but in bigger ones could become a headache.

[whisper]

I really wish lines could go out to footpath stands. The difference in efficiency of lines VS technical services for collecting trash from small bins in towns is shocking, but having to put all your trash on roads puts some constraints on your urban layout.

[High King Lemur]

Small container stands are only useful in low density residential and commercial areas. In high density residentials there's so much waste generation that you would need like 3 big stands for small containers to serve the area of a container stand. Might as well just plop down the big containers then.
Also, note that waste trucks path to next container stand only on road nodes so for effective pathfinding you should prefer road connections anyway.

[Silent_Shadow]

Bins and skids both work for collecting garbage in dense areas. What matters is having enough trucks to haul away all the garbage before it overflows, and this can be done with either type. Bins have the largest trucks, which can carry 10.5 tons compared to the 6.5 tons of the skid trucks, so you could have ~40% fewer trucks on the road, or you could use skids for a much bigger buffer, but many more trucks.

[OldGalah]

After 3800hrs playing this fantastic game I now only use the bins in my towns, the non collision version stands allow for better looking residential areas, the small garbage trucks look more realistic driving around and are just as effective as the skip trucks at collecting garbage. Skips I use in industrial areas.
I have a garbage collection area in each town storing the waste (mixed, bio, hazard and construction) and then daisy chain them using skip trucks to send garbage from town to town until finally reaching the recycling industries, ie garbage from town A to town B to C and then D, D is the recycling centre.
I like to spend a bit of time watching my trains, trucks and ships moving around so making things look as realistic as possible adds to the enjoyment, form over function rather than striving for 100% production and efficiency makes playing more satisfying than feeling like being in a competition.

[Cpt_Beefheart]

Originally posted by Phoenix:

Originally posted by LaylaTheLegendCEOofEpic:

I was just looking into this and I thought that the small bin truck might have an option to collect multiple trash cans at least and that I just missed something

They, theoretically, can, but, being assigned to Technical Offices, they extremely rarely ever visit more than 2 stands at once (because of pathfinding algorithm), thus being very ineffective in terms of capacity.

Iirc, instead of TO, you can set up line(s) that visits all the stands consequtively, but a) you sort of replacing automated TO job with manual micromanagement, and b) there has to be road access to garbage stands to make a line, not a footpath access. And if you have a road access, you could just simply plop big container stands instead of smal ones and still keep the system headache-free. Thus, line system should fit fine for very small towns, but in bigger ones could become a headache.

How long are are these lines though? Or are you not doing trash separation? Or are you making one line for each trash type? Just seems crazy as you'd have what, 6 stops at every single trash stand?

[pawelkrzyzak]

If large waste stand can be used for residential buildings (never checked it out just yet), there is very little or none sense in using small stands, whatsoever, honestly.

[whisper]

Originally posted by Cpt_Beefheart:

How long are are these lines though? Or are you not doing trash separation? Or are you making one line for each trash type? Just seems crazy as you'd have what, 6 stops at every single trash stand?

I personally don't separate out anything but biowaste in residential areas.

[Phoenix]

Originally posted by Cpt_Beefheart:

Originally posted by Phoenix:

They, theoretically, can, but, being assigned to Technical Offices, they extremely rarely ever visit more than 2 stands at once (because of pathfinding algorithm), thus being very ineffective in terms of capacity.

Iirc, instead of TO, you can set up line(s) that visits all the stands consequtively, but a) you sort of replacing automated TO job with manual micromanagement, and b) there has to be road access to garbage stands to make a line, not a footpath access. And if you have a road access, you could just simply plop big container stands instead of smal ones and still keep the system headache-free. Thus, line system should fit fine for very small towns, but in bigger ones could become a headache.

How long are are these lines though? Or are you not doing trash separation? Or are you making one line for each trash type? Just seems crazy as you'd have what, 6 stops at every single trash stand?

Me, personally, I share OP's opinion about small containers being, essentially, useless. But if you were to use lines with small stands, then, I guess, yes, it should probably be a separate line for each type of garbage bc why else would you sort it in the first place then. As for line's length, it will likely be long enough to collect enough garbage for a decent average truck load %. Too much micromanagement for me, I just use big ones :-).

Originally posted by pawelkrzyzak:

If large waste stand can be used for residential buildings (never checked it out just yet).....

Yes, ofc they can. The topic is about residential parts of town. Small containers can be *only* used with residentials, big containers can be used anywhere.

[Vimes]

I find that population density can have a great influence on the bin types used.
Very densely packed numbers of people living close together generates a lot of waste to consider using the liked type of enclosed bins.
The open skip type just have the capacity, needing fewer trucks, overall, for such occasions to work with anything other than those.

[pawelkrzyzak]

...all that having been said - my town of 10500 people, dense housing is efficiently serviced by three small garbage trucks and one large (hospital). I spent some time to place waste stands the best I could to cover biggest area possible with fewest stands, that possible. They transfer the garbage to... garbage transfer, nomen omen, and another three big garbage trucks working for distribuytion office, transport waste to the burner.