Roads in beginning of realistic mode

[Pastek]

Hi fellow comrades.

I wonder what you are using as beginning roads in realistic mode ?

I feel like gravel roads are more efficient, since they are very fast to make and they cost less too. You can even be very fastly self-sufficient by making a small gravel industry. Which will also mean all your roads with basically be free.

In addition, most starting and low cost vehicles (1960-1970) can't go any faster than 60-80 km/h which mean the asphalt road may be overkill at first.

Some examples :
- V3S : 60 km/h
- Kaz 256 : 60 km/h
- Skd 706 : 62 km/h
- T 138 : 70 km/h
- GZ-53 : 85 km/h
- W-50 : 80 km/h

A lot of people seem to use at the start the bielorussian heavy dumper BZ 252 that dont go any faster than 35 km/h, which is very slow, and they also mostly use the Skd 706 heavy load open hull which top limit is still only 62 km/h. All of the rest of vehicles at start most of the time are T 138 (70 km/h).

Gravel roads are 60 km/h maximum while asphalt roads go further up to 110 km/h.

I feel that most vehicles will rarely reach their top speed limits because to do so they need a long straight line of roads without any other vehicles in front of them, which is a lot of conditions. And I do not talk about snow here which is also a factor. I dont know if terrain elevation also play here as a speed factor.

So what's the point to use asphalt at all since the begining and before 1970s ?

Planification ?
I feel that building asphalt road faster is simply saving me time later and help me focus on other things then. Also, this let me manage roadworks and highway that will stay there for all my game.

Because after all, upgrading roads later look like a pain in the ass. This will block roads, block access to buildings and facilities and will use a lot of CO and workers.

But I dont know. I feel that I'm doing it wrong with asphalt and may choose gravels.
I even complicating my life by making a highway with 2 one-direction lanes... Which double the time of roads making. Asphalt mean I need 1 to 2 CO with paver and roller, that could be use at other things with gravels only.

What's your mind on this ?
Last question : at the beginning, do you use the option in CO to transport slow mecanism with open hull vehicles like bulldozers and excavator ?

[Dreams]

i use gravel roads =)

[Silent_Shadow]

While most early vehicles cannot go anywhere near the 110 kph limit of asphalt roads, they can still benefit from them (and other road types) because the environmental effects on speed limits scale off of the road's intrinsic speed limit and some special properties:

Speed Limits (kph)

Road Type	Normal	Night	Rain	Snow	Night & Snow	Notes
Dirt/mud	35	26	8	12	9	Turns to mud in rain. Free.
Gravel	60	45	60	21	16	Cheap.
Panel	80	60	80	28	21	Quick to build.
Tram	80	80°	80	80*	80*°	Needs Power. Limits trucks/buses to 80 kph.
Asphalt	110	82.5	110	38.5	29
Lamps/Trolley	110	110°	110	38.5	38.5°	Needs Power.

*Only 28 for non-tram vehicles, which can block trams.
°Speed limit drops to unlit road type if power is lost.

Most trucks and buses do not need to slow down at night on asphalt roads, and going 38.5 kph while covered in snow is over 50% faster than traversing snowy gravel roads. The cost is pretty prohibitive early on though, so usually it isn't worth it until you start making asphalt on your own or you are rolling in money.

Originally posted by Pastek:

Planification ?
I feel that building asphalt road faster is simply saving me time later and help me focus on other things then. Also, this let me manage roadworks and highway that will stay there for all my game.

Because after all, upgrading roads later look like a pain in the ass. This will block roads, block access to buildings and facilities and will use a lot of CO and workers.

But I dont know. I feel that I'm doing it wrong with asphalt and may choose gravels.
I even complicating my life by making a highway with 2 one-direction lanes... Which double the time of roads making. Asphalt mean I need 1 to 2 CO with paver and roller, that could be use at other things with gravels only.

Asphalt roads take a lot of time to build cheaply, so building them at the start also means slowing down your construction at the start of the game when you want it to go quickly, so I usually just stick with gravel or if I really want the speed, panel roads.

Double road highways are best if you can get them because you can work on one side while the other remains open, which lets trucks work on your city while the road is being built and saves you some time in construction.

Originally posted by Pastek:

Last question : at the beginning, do you use the option in CO to transport slow mecanism with open hull vehicles like bulldozers and excavator ?

At the start or in new expansions, I usually just plop a free CO down near the end of roads or near construction sites and move them there on their own, as the long trip just needs to be made once and then they just need to make short trips to each site.

In more established areas, I like to give them dedicated trucks, as this disrupts traffic a lot less and typically saves time (though they have to be driven to each job instead of just driving between them as they finish).

[Flat Stanley]

Dirt roads are free and built instantly. Later you can upgrade them to gravel and then to asphalt. Just remember that you cannot upgrade a dirt road straight to asphalt. You have to go gravel then asphalt.

If you design your road network for future upgrading, you can do asphalt roads with minimum issues.

Remember that asphalt not only allows faster travel but further travel for your peeps and their walking distance.

ALWAYS use open hulls to haul bulldozers and excavators. Use the truck/trailer version as it can carry the most.

[Pastek]

Originally posted by Silent_Shadow:

While most early vehicles cannot go anywhere near the 110 kph limit of asphalt roads, they can still benefit from them (and other road types) because the environmental effects on speed limits scale off of the road's intrinsic speed limit and some special properties:

Speed Limits (kph)

Road Type	Normal	Night	Rain	Snow	Night & Snow	Notes
Dirt/mud	35	26	8	12	9	Turns to mud in rain. Free.
Gravel	60	45	60	21	16	Cheap.
Panel	80	60	80	28	21	Quick to build.
Tram	80	80°	80	80*	80*°	Needs Power. Limits trucks/buses to 80 kph.
Asphalt	110	82.5	110	38.5	29
Lamps/Trolley	110	110°	110	38.5	38.5°	Needs Power.

*Only 28 for non-tram vehicles, which can block trams.
°Speed limit drops to unlit road type if power is lost.

Most trucks and buses do not need to slow down at night on asphalt roads, and going 38.5 kph while covered in snow is over 50% faster than traversing snowy gravel roads. The cost is pretty prohibitive early on though, so usually it isn't worth it until you start making asphalt on your own or you are rolling in money.

Very interesting ! I did not know that roads speed changed at night and with rain. Which make a lot of sens obviously. I did know for snow tho.

But I'm playing with always day on, because night make it so dark and I hate it lol
So I assume that I do not suffer from night speed penalties then.
I dont understand why I do not have rain tho. Only snow. Which mean I do not suffer from rain speed penalties neither.

I would have like a always day option but with rain.

[Strategic Sage]

It is possible to mod the visual aspect of the darkness to make it less dark and more to your liking.

[joeball123]

One thing to consider when making paving decisions is that the road stubs connecting to buildings that actually need road access - whether for their actual function or just for emergency services - can be inconvenient to upgrade once those buildings are in use, especially if you go in for street lights and sidewalks rather than basic gravel/panel/asphalt.

Originally posted by Flat Stanley:

Just remember that you cannot upgrade a dirt road straight to asphalt. You have to go gravel then asphalt.

There is no need to upgrade a dirt road to gravel before upgrading it to asphalt; creating the gravel bed on which the asphalt road surface will sit is part of the construction process for an asphalt road and will be done automatically as part of the upgrade process if you order a dirt road to be tarmacked.

[MachaQueso]

My rule in realistic mode is: everything must be paved with gravel before a vehicle is allowed on it. Only exception is customs and the free construction camp before I get dumpers and bulldozers to pave it.

I have done many experiments starting with realistic mode and paving everything with gravel proved to be speed up the early game significantly which helps me to build all basic services and move in residents before first winter.

If you don't really care about progressing quickly then I guess mud roads can do the job... excruciatingly slow.

I usually only pave with asphalt after I build a refinery and start producing my own bitumen. But I always pave with gravel first, then upgrade.

[Pastek]

Originally posted by joeball123:

There is no need to upgrade a dirt road to gravel before upgrading it to asphalt; creating the gravel bed on which the asphalt road surface will sit is part of the construction process for an asphalt road and will be done automatically as part of the upgrade process if you order a dirt road to be tarmacked.

I think I understand that, I tried it in my game and gravel roads that are upgraded to asphalt do not need gravels. At least it look like that. My dumpers only delivers asphalt to these roads. And no bulldozers were sent to these roads. Which mean, building gravels for the beginning then upgrading later might offer a time saving not only from the start by avoiding building asphalt but later also by reducing the time to upgrade to asphalt.

Originally posted by joeball123:

One thing to consider when making paving decisions is that the road stubs connecting to buildings that actually need road access - whether for their actual function or just for emergency services - can be inconvenient to upgrade once those buildings are in use, especially if you go in for street lights and sidewalks rather than basic gravel/panel/asphalt.

This is exacly where upgrating later to asphalt look complicated and could possibly lead to problem. I can already imagine a catastrophic situation where by example I would upgrade to asphalt a connection road to emergency buildings like Firestation and then by doing so the building would be desactivated. Then, a fire would happen and I would be in deep ♥♥♥♥.

I guess that in these situation when you upgrade your roads to asphalt, you're doing so only nodes by nodes, one at once, with nearly multiple OC designed only for roads upgrading with a lot of dumpers, easy access to asphalt, and paver and roller (but for one road project you can only use one paver and one roller at a time, which is inconvenient).

Would you suggest that making some critical building road connection asphalt since the beginning would be better ?

[MrKrabs]

I remember that I once upgraded the road to the jail.
With the result that all the inmates escaped.

A few roads I upgrade quite early.
Some others later and take the challenge.

[Pastek]

Originally posted by MrKrabs:

I remember that I once upgraded the road to the jail.
With the result that all the inmates escaped.

A few roads I upgrade quite early.
Some others later and take the challenge.

This is quite funny haha

So we could assume that some building's road connections are better being upgraded to asphalt roads since their construction while the rest of the early roadworks are gravels. Or at least before they will being operational.

I'm not sure which buildings but these could be a beginning :

Hospital
Police station
Prison
Firestation

And maybe more...

And like said earlier, build double-way roadworks and use mud path to be sure connections are still possible when upgrading.

[Walta Gaming]

For early starts I only build gravel because vehicle speeds are too slow. 1960 start I still build ashfalt roads for every main road for a few reasons.

-No need to upgrade in the future.
-Long segments can be built without needing any workers. If you have the mechanisms may as well put them to work while you have the time.
-Gravel roads are very slow with snow on them. Unless you want to build a giant fleet of snowplows ashfalt is a big help.
-You can add traffic lights and 2 lane roads to ashfalt which is a huge help for managing traffic later in the game.
-Cars need fast roads to pass slower trucks. I noticed this a lot in early starts where a 65KPH car would get stuck behind a 30KPH truck because it could not go fast enough to pass. This can be a huge issue for bringing workers to key areas such as power or heating plants since the cars can get bunched up.

[MrKrabs]

There are a few buildings with entrance and exit road.
If the entrance is done while the exit is not, vehicles will stuck there.

[Pastek]

This make me think that maybe the best is to build with gravel mostly but since your first city is finish to build before accepting citizens to move in you should maybe upgrade the roads to asphalt.

But the problem is still the lack of workers. The asphalt plant need workers I think and using CH workers isnt efficient.

[Silent_Shadow]

Originally posted by Walta Gaming:

Cars need fast roads to pass slower trucks. I noticed this a lot in early starts where a 65KPH car would get stuck behind a 30KPH truck because it could not go fast enough to pass. This can be a huge issue for bringing workers to key areas such as power or heating plants since the cars can get bunched up.

A road's speed limit doesn't limit vehicle speed when passing:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3114013456
As far as I can tell, vehicles prefer to only pass on long segments; chains of short ones seem to stop most vehicles from passing others.

[MrKrabs]

I can confirm that.
I had those guys driving through a rather dense area...

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3113985883

...and as soon as out of town he took over.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3113985813