Viability of Ships

[angry_bosmer]

What does everyone think of ships so far? I really have struggled to make best use of them as an alternative to train exports. Anyone know tricks to make a better shipping network?

-One of the main issues I had was the border unload speed which was inconsistent with land borders (1/10 the speed). I changed the scripts for the air border crossing to match the speed of the rail-road custom houses and that fixed the issue.

-I setup an ok shipping network for fuel/bitumen with 2 refineries, where 1 Pride tanker deals with bitumen and 2 with fuel. I did this because it seemed like they don't mix both. Which I didn't test a lot but might be a bug? Not sure the design intention... it seems a little unfair to not be able to mix... especially given the size of the vehicle. Eitherway, I store the bitumen until that tanker comes back. Given the unload time, I had to specify the tanker only load up half its tank before travelling to the border, otherwise the tanks would fill before it returns. There doesn't seem to be a huge advantage to filling up tankers to capacity, it'll mostly increase there unload time. Maybe fuel costs are something to look into. Also... it took my republic 2 years to repay the 36 million ruble loans for those 3 ships... not really worth it, but damn they look cool. XD

-On the map I play there only seems to be 1 soviet border crossing which I don't know if its because of the map creator or the way the system works. Ships kinda bunch up behind the ship unloading and waste fuel going back and forth... which I'll assume is something to be patched eventually. Still it requires really careful planning to never have a load of ships at the border and it kind of limits my ship exports considerably.

-Lastly, I played around with normal freight and I got really bottlenecked by the loading ability of ships. I setup a large open storage where trains unload bricks (I know I chose one of the slowest to move). With 1 harbour directly linked and two Volgabalts loading, I am barely making a dent in the stockpile as trains bring in more cargo. I was wondering what I can do to increase the flow. Has anyone tested if forklifts are faster? Or do harbours stack? If I link 3 harbours will it x3 the speed? I went into the scripts and played with the loading speeds, but that just increased the power consumption to 17 mwh which likely blew up every transformer in the area XD

Anyways, I really like the ships. I hope they become more reliable over time, the pathfinding needs work. Obviously a new feature with a large possibility for bugs, but also I think in need of a little more balancing to be consistent with the rest of the game's systems, maybe? I might just not be doing this right.

[gusgblaw]

Opposite to what the game seems to be going for so far, I see them as a good alternative to trains in the early game, some mods make it more manageable costwise and a solid train network is expensive to set up ( And time consuming, if you actually build it.) It can come down to which is more accessible depending on the map, the vanilla map never seemed to call for it.

[angry_bosmer]

Originally posted by gusgblaw:

Opposite to what the game seems to be going for so far, I see them as a good alternative to trains in the early game, some mods make it more manageable costwise and a solid train network is expensive to set up ( And time consuming, if you actually build it.) It can come down to which is more accessible depending on the map, the vanilla map never seemed to call for it.

Really? That's interesting. I always felt like the upfront costs of ships was too prohibitive, I would just open with rail.

Ah but if you use some of the smaller mod ships, I can definitely see how that can work.

Is it easy to manage a large flow of ships? I never used more than a few at the same time.

[angry_bosmer]

So I just learned two things about ships

1. You can attach more ports to one stockpile to increase the loading speed. So I had a small 2 ship harbour which was drawing a certain amount. By adding a second with another 2 ships I doubled the pull out of the stockpile. Its an improvement... but they load the bricks at the slow rate (like loading bricks outside an open storage, at the factory for example)... which is super slow. They will likely do the same when I start pushing steel there. I get the impression docks with the cranes should load open storage at the same speed... but I guess that's how it is for now.

2. The spot where the ship unloads is determined by pathfinding, not a fixed location. So all my ships went to the same spot and waited after each other because they all used the same path and I hadn't set up any buoys. With buoys I can setup as many offloading locations as I like... or have room for. Unfortunately, that will require some careful planning because unlike trains they won't pick and choose which is free.

[ryantheskinny]

Main issue is they can't unload at the same time imho.

The slow loading speed at the border is a solution to make them seem like they are traveling overseas. They are really "at the border" this probably needs some fine tuning and the ships should really go "off map" so it's a visable change.

[Piktas Keksas]

Actually they CAN unload at the same time. You just have to set route with a buoy, and the second ship takes another route to unload. And again, and again. As many buoys, as you wish

[ryantheskinny]

Originally posted by Piktas Keksas:

Actually they CAN unload at the same time. You just have to set route with a buoy, and the second ship takes another route to unload. And again, and again. As many buoys, as you wish

Did not know that. Thanks for the info

[gusgblaw]

I found shuttling workers with ships not to be viable for critical infrastructure, they don't stay at the dock for long ( Maybe better if the dock is accessible by walking.) and I can't use many smaller ships like I would with buses as they all get in a knot and stop working ( Probably buoy are a workaround here too.). The result is waves of workers instead of a steady flow. It's okay to provide the first influx of workers on a undeveloped shore ( Before you build tenements.) and it feels miserable and slow, like good old times. Fits my gamestyle anyway.

I use wooden cargo docks from the workshop, the cost is muuuuuuch lower, the most expansive part is the small harbor ( for buying ships) but it's still manageable ( 30k more or less). It's a lot more consistent but I use it for moving construction materials around and not high-yield industries yet. They probably wouldn't keep up.

[angry_bosmer]

Originally posted by ryantheskinny:

Main issue is they can't unload at the same time imho.

The slow loading speed at the border is a solution to make them seem like they are traveling overseas. They are really "at the border" this probably needs some fine tuning and the ships should really go "off map" so it's a visable change.

I remember hearing about the ''traveling'' thing and I still think its a bug. I set the unload speed to match the speed of a normal border rail crossing, its just so much better like that and is more consistent with the rest of the game. An oil tanker will take a few weeks to unload. I'm sure that was the intended behaviour... if it wasn't it really should. Its a huge improvement.

With the buoys, the ships become pretty viable. Though ships probably are the buggiest of the current features. I think they need a little love in the new updates.

[MG83]

Fairly good. i can load ship with steel from middle of map and goods by train and send it to border without building rail lines by being bugged with terraformation.

[adamerso]

Originally posted by angry_bosmer:

Originally posted by ryantheskinny:

I set the unload speed to match the speed of a normal border rail crossing, its just so much better like that and is more consistent with the rest of the game

Oh, where did you found that? What exactly and where did you set, I also want to fix it :)

[T600_Mod]

I dont know if anyone said this earlier but using wooden Docks mod and Barges for Imports IS OP

[Silent_Shadow]

Ships are great, if kind of situational.

Compared to trains, each cargo ship is roughly as expensive as a train of similar throughput, but their infrastructure costs a lot less and takes far less time to build. That they don't compete for limited customs slots is even better. The downsides of ships are the rather slow speeds and the requirement for water.

Ships are nice in the beginning because you can set them up very quickly to start making money instead of waiting for track and train facilities to be built. Later on they are still good because they don't compete for customs space and can use the otherwise useless bodies of water.

Ships are also pretty good for expanding into new areas, as you can use helicopters to build a cargo harbor and a few other facilities and then have all the vehicles and most of the building materials you need shipped in en bulk.

Ferries are probably the worst vehicle class in the game though, as citizens can only go a few km on them before reaching their "total time travelling" time limit (unless you get the much more expensive fast ones) and they have very long station visit intervals that you cannot balance with end stations or line spacing. The only way I have gotten them to work well is to employ an "overflow" system where they would take anyone present and anyone who waited too long at the dock would just go to a linked station for other transport. Definitely hard to work with.