Nuclear fuel - Prices & Power

[Lomi93]

Hello comrades,

I had a simple idea - buy uranium oxide at customs and produce power for export.

Nuclear power plant in the vanilla game either does not produce enough power or the nuclear fuel prices are wrong.

There is no point in investing in nuclear power plant at all in REALISM MODE where you count every penny not to get bankrupt.

ALL I DO IS SELL NUCLEAR FUEL. IT is such a profit that I am making millions rubles and dollars from just three factories and it pretty much solved the finances for the whole game. There is no point that I am making clothes, all construction materials etc. because the selling price is marginal compared to nuclear fuel. I can import all the necessary power from customs - it is nice stable and constant flow and the price is low.

I thing the price of nuclear fuel should be lowered because it is ruining the game. Let me make electricity from the nuclear fuel , let me build the nuclear power plant and have profit for the final product - electricity. It is wrong to stop in the middle of the production chain, let go of electricity and go and sell nuclear fuel.

Price of 9360 MWh of electricity = 3,02 x 9360 = 28 267 rubles per workday
Price of 0,080 t of nuclear fuel = 1 062 763 x 0,080 = 85 021 rubles per workday

Where is the added value of nuclear power plant? Where is return of investment?

This production chain is broken.

What is the logic behind the price of nuclear fuel?

[gwahazar]

Maybe just electric power is underpriced? I guess investment in coal powerplant is also not very profitable?

[Lomi93]

Actually with coal it works perfectly. IF you turn coal into power you are going to make more money. This works.

Return of investment in a few years.

[Cop Unit 12]

Well I'm just guessing but nuclear fuel per ton can last what. 6 ingame years?

[Silent_Shadow]

Try it with research; you'll have to go through 13,300 workdays of research just to make fuel.

As for the price discrepancy, nuclear has to deal with nuclear and toxic waste while coal and gas do not and if all you care about is power, then coal and gas can do it cheaper (renewable power can too, even with their crap ROI).

Unlike coal and gas power, nuclear power also gets a lot more benefits:

• Much less pollution, space, and workers are needed per MW.
  
• Trucks can supply a nuclear plant, while the same amount of power would require a lot of trains and their tracks and facilities.
  
• Nuclear plants have the lowest investment per MW, even before transportation is considered.

So essentially some countries are paying for these benefits when they buy nuclear fuel, not to make cheap power.

[Silent_Shadow]

Originally posted by Cop Unit 12:

Well I'm just guessing but nuclear fuel per ton can last what. 6 ingame years?

Depends on how much you use. A Twin reactor power plant can burn through 1 ton in just 12.5 days, but you'll be getting 156 MW during that time. If you only drew 10 MW, then one ton would last 195 days (about half a year).

[MG83]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2385995990

pre waste. waste is not calculated . transport not included.

[Lomi93]

Originally posted by MG83:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2385995990

pre waste. waste is not calculated . transport not included.

Very nice profit table, so it seems there are more negative profit factories and production chains, just to get the product we need.

I am sticking with coal power plant and selling nuclear fuel - no nuclear waste to treat and lots of stable energy flow.

[Lomi93]

TO conclude this topic:

My republic consumes energy for around 1 500 000 rubles per year - ALL imported

If I use a portion of my nuclear fuel production to produce all this power myself, it is going to cost me around 4 500 000 rubles per year.

I really see no point doing this with a 3 000 000 ruble loss.

The production chain of nuclear power IS BROKEN. The price of nuclear fuel is too high.

[Silent_Shadow]

If all you look at is power production per cost, then yeah, but nuclear power has plenty of other benefits that justify the cost, like lower pollution, space, logistics, and workers per MW.

[Lomi93]

I am not sure if these benefits are enough you know.

Lower polllution not so much if you take into account the uranium conversion plant and the whole porcess.

Space might be an advantage, although space we have enough on the map everywhere.

Logistics is absolutely fantastic, no question about that.

Workers per MW with 80 basic and 40 high educated is not a benefit compared to others.

Basically we have high price compensated by logistics
( in extreme case with preexisting roads all I need is 1 truck )

Say I import 1 MWh of electricity - costs 6,75 R - no logistics

If I turn coal into power for 1 MWh - costs 2,6 R - Railway needed for logistics (huge investment)

IF I turn nuclear fuel into power for 1 MWh - costs 17,7 R - no logistics

Don´t you think that making your own electrity (nuclear) shoould be cheaper than importing the power from abroad for the buyer´s price?

Normally you have the price of nuclear MWh around 15 cents while the coal MWh costs around 7-8 cents.

I believe it would be more realistic if the nuclear power in the game costed around 6 R in this particular case (not 17,7 R - that is too high)

SO the price of nuclear fuel should be lowered...

[Silent_Shadow]

Pollution per MW:
• Nuclear Twin Reactor plant + 2 Cooling towers = 0.245 Tons/year-MW
• Coal power plant = 1.717 tons/year-MW
• Gas power plant = 2.106 tons/year-MW

The nuclear power plant's pollution is also a lot more concentrated for a given amount of power (fewer buildings), so a lot less land is exposed to pollution due to the inverse cube relationship pollution has with distance.

Originally posted by Lomi93:

Lower polllution not so much if you take into account the uranium conversion plant and the whole porcess.

Which the importing nation does not deal with.

Even if you do include that pollution, nuclear power still only gets to 0.429 tons/year-MW, while gas goes up to 2.402 tons/year-MW, coal is at 1.820 tons/year-MW with just its coal production chain. The fuel/energy for its trains will just make it worse.


Space is plentiful on most maps, but space within distance of a city is not. You could build it further away, but then you'll be spending more on transportation (both for the coal and the workers) and the worker supply would be less reliable, or you'll have to build a whole other town to work them. Then there are mountainous and island maps with a lot less room to build.

Originally posted by Lomi93:

Workers per MW with 80 basic and 40 high educated is not a benefit compared to others.

Workers per MW:
• Nuclear - 0.769 workers per MW
• Coal - 0.870 workers per MW
• Gas - 0.882 workers per MW

Nuclear needs about 7/8 as many workers as coal does for a given amount of power, and they are all in the same building, which makes keeping staffing full easier.

Originally posted by Lomi93:

Don´t you think that making your own electrity (nuclear) shoould be cheaper than importing the power from abroad for the buyer´s price?

If nuclear fuel were the only power source in the game, then it would make sense for it to generate more value in power than just selling or buying it, but there are cheaper, more simple ways to make electricity.

Nuclear fuel is not over priced, but rather power is too cheap due to competition from other power sources. Nuclear fuel is bought for the benefits, not to make the cheapest power.

[MG83]

Originally posted by Lomi93:

Very nice profit table, so it seems there are more negative profit factories and production chains, just to get the product we need.

I am sticking with coal power plant and selling nuclear fuel - no nuclear waste to treat and lots of stable energy flow.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1994286074
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1994286279

[2+2=5]

I have this english report titled "Nuclear Power in the Soviet Union" by B. A. Semenov, in which it states;
"Thus the average cost of nuclear-generated electricity in 1979 was 0.793 copeck/kWh, whereas, the average cost of electricity from conventional power plants was 0.753 copeck/kWh."
I think the game should adjust the prices of electricity to something closer.
Also electric utilities do not, to my knowledge, manufacture their own fuel and yet still make a return on their plants.
A few things to think over.

[Silent_Shadow]

We are not the soviet union, utilities get paid whatever the state decides they do, and those figures probably include the cost of transporting fuel, building the power plants, their workers' salaries, and more; not just the costs of fuel and power. Nuclear power in the game becomes cost effective to import fuel for instead of importing power as you start to use it in higher amounts. The price is fine.

[2+2=5]

Thank you for telling me.